Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3

Author Topic: FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?  (Read 7439 times)

Thundercraft

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?
« on: February 02, 2013, 04:42:46 am »

It has been a while since I last played DF. (More than a year, less than 2 years.)

Question: Does the recent version still have the same problem with the drop in frame rate late in a Fortress Mode game? Or, does this seem noticeably worse compared to a version about 2 years old (version 0.31.18)?


On old, slower machines there are cases where it runs really slow late in a Fortress Mode embark.

I've heard that a big part of the problem was how it keeps track of everything, even bloodsplatter and grime. And now, with all the Nightcreatures, towns, and added features, I suspect that this could be worse than ever... unless one has a decent desktop. It sounds to me like most new features adds a new layer of complexity and stuff to keep track of.

I'm asking because I thought about getting back into it. But if the FPS thing is any worse than before, I might be better off waiting until I get a new desktop that can handle it. (I'm stuck on an old laptop at the moment.)

Yes, I realize that I could do a 2x2 embark on a slow machine. But I don't have the patience for a slow FPS and I wanted to know.
Logged

SRD

  • Bay Watcher
  • Who the hell do you think I think you are?
    • View Profile
Re: FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?
« Reply #1 on: February 02, 2013, 05:42:26 am »

Just get rid of temperature and weather, you should be fine.
Logged
Quote from: LoneTophat
EDIT: HOW DO I STOP THE BLEEDING!
SUPEREDIT: Nevermind. Bled to death ._.

Trif

  • Bay Watcher
  • the Not-Quite-So-Great-as-Toady One
    • View Profile
Re: FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2013, 06:55:47 am »

Supposedly, FPS became slightly better with v0.34. FPS death still exists, but you'll probably be able to play a bit longer.
Logged
Quote from: Toady One
I wonder if the game has become odd.

ExecratedDwarf

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2013, 08:53:07 am »

I have played DF on a 7 year old computer with 1 gb of RAM and I was able to get to year 4 or 5 before I started seeing any real issues. Now I play on a 5 year old computer with 3gb of RAM and I've never had issues. I haven't played a fort for more than 10 years though, so I'm not sure if it becomes an issue after that amount of time.
Logged

thegoatgod_pan

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2013, 11:36:59 am »

It is better now, last version specifically improved memory issues and fixed a lot of the ways contaminants were building up forever/clothes weren't decaying away.

Also turning off weather doesnt really matter for people outside evil areas and fixes a huge part of the issues, while turning off temperature is sad, but sometimes necessary. There are also dfhack fixes that clean up contaminants, i use those quite a bit in my 15 year old fort
Logged
More ridiculous than reindeer?  Where you think you supercool and is you things the girls where I honestly like I is then why are humans on their as my people or what would you?

Talvieno

  • Bay Watcher
  • Hello, Death. How's life?
    • View Profile
Re: FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2013, 11:46:55 am »

I have played DF on a 7 year old computer with 1 gb of RAM and I was able to get to year 4 or 5 before I started seeing any real issues. Now I play on a 5 year old computer with 3gb of RAM and I've never had issues. I haven't played a fort for more than 10 years though, so I'm not sure if it becomes an issue after that amount of time.
The amount of RAM you have doesn't really have much effect on DF - it rarely takes up more than 1 GB at a time, and that's during worldgen.

Edited for clarity's sake.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2013, 01:06:54 pm by Talvieno »
Logged
Quote from: Mr Frog
Talvieno ... seems to be able to smash out novella-length tales on demand

Trif

  • Bay Watcher
  • the Not-Quite-So-Great-as-Toady One
    • View Profile
Re: FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2013, 12:52:55 pm »

I have played DF on a 7 year old computer with 1 gb of RAM and I was able to get to year 4 or 5 before I started seeing any real issues. Now I play on a 5 year old computer with 3gb of RAM and I've never had issues. I haven't played a fort for more than 10 years though, so I'm not sure if it becomes an issue after that amount of time.
RAM doesn't really have much effect on DF - it rarely takes up more than 1 GB at a time, and that's during worldgen.
From the wiki:
Quote
The most important thing to the performance of the game, however, is undoubtedly RAM latency—the amount of lag the RAM has when working. Dwarf Fortress works the RAM every single frame for every single creature, every single item, every single piece of liquid, the temperature of every tile—you get the picture. The gigantic amount of operations working at the same time—which any current processor could handle much faster than what you see—is primarily bottlenecked by RAM latency and RAM speed.

CPU and FPS are mildly correlated, but this correlation has been attributed as a non-causative one. Rather, newer CPUs seem to come with faster RAM, but for the purpose of a Dwarf Fortress computer, RAM is more important.
Logged
Quote from: Toady One
I wonder if the game has become odd.

Talvieno

  • Bay Watcher
  • Hello, Death. How's life?
    • View Profile
Re: FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2013, 01:03:09 pm »

I have played DF on a 7 year old computer with 1 gb of RAM and I was able to get to year 4 or 5 before I started seeing any real issues. Now I play on a 5 year old computer with 3gb of RAM and I've never had issues. I haven't played a fort for more than 10 years though, so I'm not sure if it becomes an issue after that amount of time.
RAM doesn't really have much effect on DF - it rarely takes up more than 1 GB at a time, and that's during worldgen.
From the wiki:
Quote
The most important thing to the performance of the game, however, is undoubtedly RAM latency—the amount of lag the RAM has when working. Dwarf Fortress works the RAM every single frame for every single creature, every single item, every single piece of liquid, the temperature of every tile—you get the picture. The gigantic amount of operations working at the same time—which any current processor could handle much faster than what you see—is primarily bottlenecked by RAM latency and RAM speed.

CPU and FPS are mildly correlated, but this correlation has been attributed as a non-causative one. Rather, newer CPUs seem to come with faster RAM, but for the purpose of a Dwarf Fortress computer, RAM is more important.
Ah, you misunderstood me. ExecratedDwarf and I were talking about the quantity, not the latency. I'd figured that would be understood and hadn't bothered mentioning the difference. Thanks for posting that here, though, it should help out. :)
Logged
Quote from: Mr Frog
Talvieno ... seems to be able to smash out novella-length tales on demand

Thundercraft

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2013, 08:10:38 pm »

Thanks for the insight and advice, guys!  :)

I especially appreciate the tip on memory speed. It should make a big difference to keep that in mind when I shop for a new desktop.
Logged

Delta Foxtrot

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2013, 07:47:32 am »

Here's a link to Accelerated DF, a mod that aims to improve the FPS rate of your fort by cutting some chaff while keeping the core gameplay the same. Give it a try if you're having problems with FPS.
Logged

Ozfer

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2013, 10:06:51 am »

Another Mod that not only adds gigatons of content, but it also increases FPS really well: Masterwork.
Logged

Naryar

  • Bay Watcher
  • [SPHERE:FIRE][LIKES_FIGHTING]
    • View Profile
Re: FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2013, 10:22:20 am »

DFHack can help you with some FPS issues.

Michaelsoftman

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2013, 10:22:26 am »

One thing you can also do to speed up the game is to end world gen before it goes on too long.

Stop it around year 50 or earlier.
Logged

Di

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2013, 10:40:13 am »

Just get rid of temperature and weather, you should be fine.
I keep seeing this advice and it keeps failing to do any difference to me. There's not much of temperature evaluation if you don't pump magma around map unreasonably, which people with slow machines tend not to do.
One thing you can also do to speed up the game is to end world gen before it goes on too long.
Stop it around year 50 or earlier.
Another saying that isn't quite true, longer history only slows down the game when it is referred to. That is: when the game is loaded and when historical events get placed on images (you can even see freezes when engravers work).
Another Mod that not only adds gigatons of content, but it also increases FPS really well: Masterwork.
I keep seeing this as well, but the only source of this is Meph himself. And I can't see how assigning the same attributes to every functionally identical material would make the drain caused by the storing and processing of the said attribute, leather names being the example. To me it appeared to run slower, just as any other extension mod.

As for the .31.18 vs .34.11, I used to have 100-150 dwarves fort back then and I can't get more than 90 before fps drops below 30 now. Addition of new stuff slows game inevitably no matter how effectively it's coded.
Though I can't play old version now, without all those new features.
If you wish to stick to .31.18, there was an "Intensifying mod" for it which simplified anatomy and made contaminants boil away immediately and thus quickened the game up a bit.
Logged
Quote from: Creamcorn
Dwarf Fortress: Where you meet the limit of your imagination, moral compass, sanity and CPU processor.
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=103080.0 Fix sober vampires!
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=91442.0 Dwarven Cognitive Science

Randy Gnoman

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: FPS issue on slow PCs: Worse than before? Or same?
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2013, 03:00:05 pm »

I think I've heard that quantum stockpiling can help reduce lag.  Maybe someone can confirm or dis-confirm that.

Avoiding embarks with lots of flowing water is also good.  A major river can give me an FPS hit even when I only have the starting 7 dwarves on a 3*3 embark.

I can't really say whether FPS issues are better or worse, because I've switched computers- except that I have noticed a big difference in worldgen taking longer in the new version.  This could be because I'm using a laptop, but it doesn't seem to correspond to a major drop in FPS during fortress mode.
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3