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Author Topic: Viva la Revolucion! Game Over, man, Game over!  (Read 66037 times)

Captain Ford

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Re: Viva la Revolucion! Week 3, Day 1 - Planning Mode
« Reply #435 on: February 28, 2013, 01:54:45 pm »

In the future don't propose teams with spies in it on purpose.
You're putting words in my mouth. I believed everyone on that team to be a rebel. But I always consider the possibility I'm wrong.

I only did that because, based upon the way people said they were voting, the team was going to fail even if I upvoted. Since my upvote couldn't pass the team, I cast a downvote in case I was wrong, there was a spy on the team, and a spy switched their vote to put it through.

Since it wasn't clear, here's how I saw the votes, including links to the posts where they were declared:
ToonyMan: Up
zombie urist: Down
Nerjin: Down
Tiruin: Up
Dariush: Down
Toaster: Down

Leafsnail: Down - I can't find a post where he stated his vote. But he's been very clear that he believes Nerjin to be a spy, so a downvote is obvious.
notquitethere: Up - He didn't call out his vote either, and now I'm not sure why I assumed he would upvote.

Teams with Captain Ford or Zombie Urist will get no up-votes from me. Nor Leafsnail because he's been on both failing missions.
This is a very sudden and dramatic flip, Nerjin. I never said how I was going to vote, and I had good reasons for casting a downvote. Previously, you also supported a team with ZU on it.

Explain.



notquitethere: I don't think you ever claimed your vote in-thread. What were your reasons for upvoting and why haven't you posted them yet?



So you downvoted because you thought the team might have a spy.  But you proposed it anyway, and it could have passed if one more person voted for it.  And you didn't take into account the possibility of multiple spies switching their votes.  Am I reading you right here?
1. Not exactly. I wanted the team to pass, but when Nerjin downvoted that no longer seemed possible. That put me in a position where the team could only pass if a spy wanted it to.

I could have been 99% sure of the people I picked, but with a 0% chance of the team passing, there was nothing to be gained by upvoting. However, in the 1% chance I was wrong, a downvote could be beneficial.

2. There's nothing I could have done if multiple spies changed their votes (short of putting out a call for other people to downvote). But unless they're talking in code, the spies aren't coordinating, so they have to guess how the others are going to act. There was a limited amount of time to vote, people are in different time zones, and some of them likely had to vote without knowing everything.

They could win the game by upvoting, but if they're wrong, then all they would have accomplished is completely blowing their cover. That's a very strong disincentive.

I won't say I wasn't worried about it. But I made a judgment call, based on the fact that I believed the team to be a good one, and the fact that spies would have to take a big risk to secretly upvote.



PPE: Dariush. Who said something similar in fewer words.

Ahem, I lost myself for a while there. What I meant was, why the sudden switch to NQT and Tiruin? (and from me and LS, for that matter)
I would also like to hear the answer to this.
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...Holy shit. Ford, you get the Official Medal of Epic Awesomeness.
Its official! Ford! You need to put it in your sig now! "Official Mafia Welcomer!"

Nerjin

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Re: Viva la Revolucion! Week 3, Day 1 - Planning Mode
« Reply #436 on: February 28, 2013, 02:26:21 pm »

In the future don't propose teams with spies in it on purpose.
You're putting words in my mouth. I believed everyone on that team to be a rebel. But I always consider the possibility I'm wrong.

I only did that because, based upon the way people said they were voting, the team was going to fail even if I upvoted. Since my upvote couldn't pass the team, I cast a downvote in case I was wrong, there was a spy on the team, and a spy switched their vote to put it through.

What I'm taking away from this is that you downvoted BECAUSE other people didn't agree with your team so you wanted to look more innocent. Seems fishy to me as you're supposed to vote on whether you think the team will work and not whether it will pass.


Teams with Captain Ford or Zombie Urist will get no up-votes from me. Nor Leafsnail because he's been on both failing missions.
This is a very sudden and dramatic flip, Nerjin. I never said how I was going to vote, and I had good reasons for casting a downvote. Previously, you also supported a team with ZU on it.

Explain.

... I already did. He stated he would not vote on a team with me or NQT and then he does so. It says to me that someone on that team was a scum. So given the evidence I have I suspect you and NQT the most.



notquitethere: I don't think you ever claimed your vote in-thread. What were your reasons for upvoting and why haven't you posted them yet?


So you downvoted because you thought the team might have a spy.  But you proposed it anyway, and it could have passed if one more person voted for it.  And you didn't take into account the possibility of multiple spies switching their votes.  Am I reading you right here?
1. Not exactly. I wanted the team to pass, but when Nerjin downvoted that no longer seemed possible. That put me in a position where the team could only pass if a spy wanted it to.

I could have been 99% sure of the people I picked, but with a 0% chance of the team passing, there was nothing to be gained by upvoting. However, in the 1% chance I was wrong, a downvote could be beneficial.

2. There's nothing I could have done if multiple spies changed their votes (short of putting out a call for other people to downvote). But unless they're talking in code, the spies aren't coordinating, so they have to guess how the others are going to act. There was a limited amount of time to vote, people are in different time zones, and some of them likely had to vote without knowing everything.

They could win the game by upvoting, but if they're wrong, then all they would have accomplished is completely blowing their cover. That's a very strong disincentive.

I won't say I wasn't worried about it. But I made a judgment call, based on the fact that I believed the team to be a good one, and the fact that spies would have to take a big risk to secretly upvote.
1. I addressed earlier.
2.So what you are saying is that those who voted up are likely spies?
3. YOu believed the team to be good but you voted AGAINST IT. Obviously you were worried that it wouldn't pass. Therefore I think it's safe to say that you were worried about how you would look if it DIDN"T pass if you upvoted.
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zombie urist

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Re: Viva la Revolucion! Week 3, Day 1 - Planning Mode
« Reply #437 on: February 28, 2013, 02:42:17 pm »

Short post during lunch.

Ford: I meant post. I was referring to the one I said "no way I'd upvote that". 
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Toaster

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Re: Viva la Revolucion! Week 3, Day 1 - Planning Mode
« Reply #438 on: February 28, 2013, 03:00:37 pm »

HEY NERJIN I'M TALKING TO YOU

How about answering all this?



My current reads:

Strong Town:  ToonyMan, Dariush
Light Town: Ford
Null: NQT
Light Scum: Leafsnail
Medium Scum: Zombie Urist*, Nerjin**
Strong Scum: Tiruin

*At least until he explains himself.
** At least until he quits ignoring me.


If I sent in a team right now, it would (obviously, I hope) be me, Toony, Dariush, and Ford.
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Nerjin

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Re: Viva la Revolucion! Week 3, Day 1 - Planning Mode
« Reply #439 on: February 28, 2013, 03:07:23 pm »

Sorry for the ignore I didn't see any of this. Lot of activity on the entire board so... ANYWAY onto answers.

Nerjin:
Toaster or Dariush. Despite the latters... Unpleasantness I trust that he's town. Toaster also has seemed to be relatively town.

On both, why?

You both seem to be scum-hunting quite a bit or at the very least not dropping a lot of scum-tells and contradicting yourselves.

Nerjin:
Zombie Urist: This is the one Iím LEAST pushing. Just in the time heís been with us I feel heís acted mostly trustworthy.

How so?

Actually, this totally contradicts what you said earlier:

I propose [as it were] this team.

ToonyMan: That god *donut* piece of *spinach* WIFOM with the role-name thing still *pineapple*s me to no end. But other than that he has seemed relatively town with an excellent scum-hunting capability.

Nerjin: I am me and I know I am town however as I donít think itíd be wise to pick me [as everyone would downvote] we shall move on.

Captain Ford: You put a lot of effort into finding scum and I approve of that. While you seem WAY to easily swayed through emotional appeal I think youíre logical enough to trust.

Zombie Urist: This is the one Iím LEAST pushing. Just in the time heís been with us I feel heís acted mostly trustworthy.

Why the change?

As it were it doesnt contradict. I had felt at the time he acted mostly trustworthy. BUT his total flip on the way he's voting has put him as mostly scummy to me.
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Tiruin

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Re: Viva la Revolucion! Week 3, Day 1 - Planning Mode
« Reply #440 on: February 28, 2013, 04:08:18 pm »

Captain Ford
ToonyMan
Nerjin
...Leafsnail?  I'm slightly hesitant still.  But definitely not Tiruin.  Dariush might work.  Definitely not NQT or ZU.
Dude, don't pick me. People will downvote because of the sheer audacity of it.

Light Scum: Leafsnail
Medium Scum: Zombie Urist*, Nerjin**
Strong Scum: Tiruin
I'd like to ask why you aren't trying to clear the light scum but I believe you're acting mostly on gut read here.

Still,
Strong Town:  [ToonyMan] Dariush
Light Town: Ford
Why the two in no brackets? Explanation behind them and their relation with scum?


Dariush: You misse- wait, whatever. You'll just slander my face with more mud. You missed my questions to you in a post, but of course you couldn't have missed it because it was right under Toaster's. The one you quoted back there.

Judging by how you outed me, why do you think a spy would be defending a fellow spy in such an illogical fashion? A reasonable answer is preferable.
The lack of an answer is not preferable.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Viva la Revolucion! Week 3, Day 1 - Planning Mode
« Reply #441 on: February 28, 2013, 04:37:56 pm »

I think I've worked out what happened last vote now.

- I think I get Captain Ford's explanation now.  Essentially his aim was to try and catch the scumteam making a move.  He succeeded (although I still think it was a kindof bad idea because if one more rebel had approved that team we would have lost already)
- The scumteam have some kind of signal.  I don't know what it is, but it would make sense for them to have organized a "We're all going to upvote this team and win the game, regardless of what we say in the thread" signal.  The signal was activated because 2 townies (Toony, Captain Ford) indicated that they'd be willing to vote in favour of a team with a spy in it, and they didn't take into account the possibility that a rebel would go against their stated vote.
- This is why zombie urist inexplicably upvoted in spite of his stated opposition to the team - with the game finished, it wouldn't matter what we thought of him afterwards.  I don't think him the idea of him taking independent action makes sense because NQT never stated an opinion for or against the team, so he'd have no way of knowing whether he'd be the swing vote or not on his own.
- Because of this, I believe that all members of the scumteam must have upvoted.  This means that the three spies must be among the following four players:
notquitethere
Toonyman
Tiruin
zombie urist
- Out of these four players, only one was on the failed first mission: Tiruin.  Only one was on the second failed mission: zombie urist.  And only one was on the third, attempted failed mission: notquitethereThis is the scumteam.

Incidentally, while he didn't express an opinion explicitly, I think that notquitethere jumped on a team he shouldn't have supported just as hard as ZU:
An obvious scum tactic would be to try to only put one spy per team, so it wouldn't be surprising if there's a spy among the people that haven't played yet. As such, I'd advise against sending both Nerjin and Toonyman.
He upvoted a team with both Nerjin and ToonyMan.  The one concrete recommendation he made, ignored.
Uh, no. It is completely possible that scum-Nerjin didn't want to risk upvoting a team a town-Nerjin would have downvoted (like ZU did) and thus prolong the game for a day while safeguarding himself with WIFOM.
What's the risk meant to be?  That we'd work out he was scum after the game had already ended with a spy victory?  In any case I don't think you can explain the ZU/NQT vote jumps if Nerjin is a spy.

Captain Ford
ToonyMan
Nerjin
...Leafsnail?  I'm slightly hesitant still.  But definitely not Tiruin.  Dariush might work.  Definitely not NQT or ZU.
This would be acceptable, but I can be somewhat flexible now the scumteam is pretty much nailed.
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Tiruin

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Re: Viva la Revolucion! Week 3, Day 1 - Planning Mode
« Reply #442 on: February 28, 2013, 04:43:33 pm »

Captain Ford
ToonyMan
Nerjin
...Leafsnail?  I'm slightly hesitant still.  But definitely not Tiruin.  Dariush might work.  Definitely not NQT or ZU.
This would be acceptable, but I can be somewhat flexible now the scumteam is pretty much nailed.
But you can't be somewhat flexible in how you explain the scumteam out. Notice that your scumpick is in the range of your 'flexible' team? Just because you're one step away from victory doesn't mean you should gloat this early, mate.

Why is NQT scum? - "I have no idea but..." Why is ToonyMan scum - "He upvoted this when..."

I mean, how obvious could you get? "Because of this, I believe that all members of the scumteam must have upvoted.", you didn't follow this up with an explanation but go instead on a tangent which calls out people. You don't give explanations at all.

Hey, scumbag. I think you forgot Deathsword, eh?
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Leafsnail

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Re: Viva la Revolucion! Week 3, Day 1 - Planning Mode
« Reply #443 on: February 28, 2013, 04:48:44 pm »

My three scumpicks are you, NQT and ZU.  Not ToonyMan.  I explained why you three are the only team that works out of the four upvoters.

I mean, how obvious could you get? "Because of this, I believe that all members of the scumteam must have upvoted.", you didn't follow this up with an explanation but go instead on a tangent which calls out people. You don't give explanations at all.
That's because the explanation preceded the "because"!  The previous paragraph explains why I believe a full scumjump on the vote is the only explanation that works.

Hey, scumbag. I think you forgot Deathsword, eh?
That's true.  But he's dead and scum, so who cares about him?  All that matters are the three spies alive now.
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Tiruin

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Re: Viva la Revolucion! Week 3, Day 1 - Planning Mode
« Reply #444 on: February 28, 2013, 05:01:39 pm »

My three scumpicks are you, NQT and ZU.  Not ToonyMan.  I explained why you three are the only team that works out of the four upvoters.
Right. You just point out in definitives who upvoted the team and who was on what mission.

What I'm talking about is proof in relation to everyone else involved, but vague prancing around without conclusive evidence.

Quote
- Because of this, I believe that all members of the scumteam must have upvoted.
So where's your explanation on this? That this is the third mission and there was a spy on board? How could you prove it?

Quote
That's true.  But he's dead and scum, so who cares about him?  All that matters are the three spies alive now.
Smooth move, tiger. Eliminate ToonyMan because of a slip.
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Dariush

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Re: Viva la Revolucion! Week 3, Day 1 - Planning Mode
« Reply #445 on: February 28, 2013, 05:03:39 pm »

...Holy shit. Ford, you get the Official Medal of Epic Awesomeness. That's seriously an amazing gambit you pulled off. You have my respect, man.

And Nerjin, you get a turd onna plate for being a stupid scumass for the entire game.

Nerjin

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Re: Viva la Revolucion! Week 3, Day 1 - Planning Mode
« Reply #446 on: February 28, 2013, 05:05:57 pm »

...Holy shit. Ford, you get the Official Medal of Epic Awesomeness. That's seriously an amazing gambit you pulled off. You have my respect, man.

And Nerjin, you get a turd onna plate for being a stupid scumass for the entire game.

Fuck off you son of a bitch.
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Tiruin

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Re: Viva la Revolucion! Week 3, Day 1 - Planning Mode
« Reply #447 on: February 28, 2013, 05:10:54 pm »

...Holy shit. Ford, you get the Official Medal of Epic Awesomeness. That's seriously an amazing gambit you pulled off. You have my respect, man.

And Nerjin, you get a turd onna plate for being a stupid scumass for the entire game.

Fuck off you son of a bitch.
Calm down Nerjin. No need to inflate the scumbag's boorish ego more. You can see he's just taunting without any definitive reason.
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Even though accounts vary, everyone has a legendary story to tell.

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Nerjin

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Re: Viva la Revolucion! Week 3, Day 1 - Planning Mode
« Reply #448 on: February 28, 2013, 05:12:40 pm »

No, I'm tired of him being forgiven over this crap! I understand a certain amount but he's gone too far cumulatively fore me to ignore it anymore. He needs to take a step back and quit being such a bastard.
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Leafsnail

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Re: Viva la Revolucion! Week 3, Day 1 - Planning Mode
« Reply #449 on: February 28, 2013, 05:28:01 pm »

Right. You just point out in definitives who upvoted the team and who was on what mission.

What I'm talking about is proof in relation to everyone else involved, but vague prancing around without conclusive evidence.
I've said why!  ZU and NQT's vote jumps indicate a mass scumteam attempt to spike the vote.

Smooth move, tiger. Eliminate ToonyMan because of a slip.
What?  I listed three people and said they were scum.  You seem to be trying to lump a fourth person into my accusation because... I don't know, maybe spies would be less good at remembering how many scum there are in the game even though they'd remember having one of their team killed off??
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