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Bay12 Presidential Focus Polling 2016

Ted Cruz
- 7 (6.5%)
Rick Santorum
- 16 (14.8%)
Michelle Bachmann
- 13 (12%)
Chris Christie
- 23 (21.3%)
Rand Paul
- 49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107


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Author Topic: Bay12 Election Night Watch Party  (Read 584335 times)

Culise

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6585 on: April 24, 2014, 03:32:41 pm »

The thing about letting the South secede is that it works to northern liberals' political benefit by all but guaranteeing them continuous control of the House, Senate, and especially presidency (once we get rid of the right-wing southerners), the entire north's economic benefit of not subsidizing the almost entire south's tax deficits (IIRC), and to the right-wing white conservative southerners' benefit by giving them a place to implement their ass-backwards policies freely.

The problem is that we have to sacrifice the protection and, in all likelihood, basic civil liberties of women, minorities, LGBT people, and non-Christians in the newly created nation of Dumbfuckistan.
I hope you are able to realize how the way you've gone about saying this is just a little bit offensive to Southerners. While the conservative stronghold down here is a problem, they're only a part (not even really a majority) of our society. Furthermore, I'm getting really sick and tired of people acting like my home is a problem to be gotten rid of.
By the way, did you guys know that the Democrats actually won the last house elections? That is, they got more vote. But lost the House. Yay gerrymandering!
An unfortunate reality until the use of algorithmic districting becomes commonplace. But even so, it will only buy the Republicans an election cycle or two until the demographic shift catches up with them, hard.
Not to mention that a good way to cripple yourself is to repeatedly partition yourself by cutting off any part of the country that's not "ideologically pure" enough.  Lop off the south to ensure Democratic control of the North.  Then, the Democrats starts infighting between the social liberals, progressives (or new liberals), centrists, and blue dogs, and we can solve that issue by lopping off the bits that don't toe the party line (after all, we've just set a precedent).  We end up with a whole bunch of Republics of Dave running around. 
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10ebbor10

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6586 on: April 24, 2014, 03:37:50 pm »

By the way, did you guys know that the Democrats actually won the last house elections? That is, they got more vote. But lost the House. Yay gerrymandering!
An unfortunate reality until the use of algorithmic districting becomes commonplace. But even so, it will only buy the Republicans an election cycle or two until the demographic shift catches up with them, hard.
Yup, once Gerrymandering fails, it'll collapse completely.

The thing about letting the South secede is that it works to northern liberals' political benefit by all but guaranteeing them continuous control of the House, Senate, and especially presidency (once we get rid of the right-wing southerners), the entire north's economic benefit of not subsidizing the almost entire south's tax deficits (IIRC), and to the right-wing white conservative southerners' benefit by giving them a place to implement their ass-backwards policies freely.

The problem is that we have to sacrifice the protection and, in all likelihood, basic civil liberties of women, minorities, LGBT people, and non-Christians in the newly created nation of Dumbfuckistan.
I hope you are able to realize how the way you've gone about saying this is just a little bit offensive to Southerners. While the conservative stronghold down here is a problem, they're only a part (not even really a majority) of our society. Furthermore, I'm getting really sick and tired of people acting like my home is a problem to be gotten rid of.
By the way, did you guys know that the Democrats actually won the last house elections? That is, they got more vote. But lost the House. Yay gerrymandering!
An unfortunate reality until the use of algorithmic districting becomes commonplace. But even so, it will only buy the Republicans an election cycle or two until the demographic shift catches up with them, hard.
Not to mention that a good way to cripple yourself is to repeatedly partition yourself by cutting off any part of the country that's not "ideologically pure" enough.  Lop off the south to ensure Democratic control of the North.  Then, the Democrats starts infighting between the social liberals, progressives (or new liberals), centrists, and blue dogs, and we can solve that issue by lopping off the bits that don't toe the party line (after all, we've just set a precedent).  We end up with a whole bunch of Republics of Dave running around. 
I don't see the problem. America is way to big a continent to have only 3 countries.
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Owlbread

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6587 on: April 24, 2014, 03:40:12 pm »

I'm still very much in favour of the independence of Hawaii, the Lakotah territories and Cascadia and such. Aztlan will come some day too, give it a few decades.
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Frumple

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6588 on: April 24, 2014, 03:41:35 pm »

I hope you are able to realize how the way you've gone about saying this is just a little bit offensive to Southerners. While the conservative stronghold down here is a problem, they're only a part (not even really a majority) of our society. Furthermore, I'm getting really sick and tired of people acting like my home is a problem to be gotten rid of.
I kinda' empathize with cutting the area loose. Or at least parts of it. Not sure if you came from one of the areas that actually aren't 90+% non-negligibly violent (did you know my most recent college class was able to cite at least three or four major race fights in schools they've been in, in the last 10-20 years? And we're not talking small brawls -- we're talking dozens on each side, happening in different schools, different areas, etc. It's still a goddamn problem.), viciously corrupt (we're talking dodge federal investigations into pedophilia corrupt, here.), bigots, but... I did. Florida would be better off if my home town and most of the surrounding area mysteriously vanished into the aether. I dig people thinking my home is a problem to be gotten rid of, because it is.

Also understand that a lot of the area isn't exactly like that, and it tends to get better as you go further north (or further south -- mid/south florida is a seriously different place). Still. Too much is. Not something I'd actually advocate, but there's definitely days I half wish someone would just firebomb this hellhole and put all of us out of everyone else's misery. Rather we just improve things than cut it loose, but... it tempts.
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Culise

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6589 on: April 24, 2014, 04:47:04 pm »

I'm still very much in favour of the independence of Hawaii, the Lakotah territories and Cascadia and such. Aztlan will come some day too, give it a few decades.
Hmmm, even over the objections of their inhabitants?  I understand that you're Scottish and thus have most of your experience with a genuine independence movement, but of those three, the myriad independence parties in Hawaii can't even get enough votes together to win a single seat in the local legislature, Cascadia is barely more than a joke with a larger presence on the Internet than on the ground, and the Lakotah independence movement is probably the only one that is even remotely plausible, but even its independence movement was a handful of people with little popular support, next to no support among the tribal leadership, and who are significantly hampered by an avowed refusal to recognize the sitting elected governments of the Lakota nation (due to what they term "stay-by-the-fort", that is, collaborationist tendencies). 
« Last Edit: April 24, 2014, 04:49:30 pm by Culise »
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stabbymcstabstab

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6590 on: April 24, 2014, 04:51:52 pm »

The closest to independence Hawaii is going to get is the natives getting the same rights as Mainland natives including their own government.
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Owlbread

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6591 on: April 24, 2014, 04:57:08 pm »

Hmmm, even over the objections of their inhabitants?  I understand that you're Scottish and thus have most of your experience with a genuine independence movement, but of those three, the myriad independence parties in Hawaii can't even get enough votes together to win a single seat in the local legislature, Cascadia is barely more than a joke with a larger presence on the Internet than on the ground, and the Lakotah independence movement is probably the only one that is even remotely plausible, but even its independence movement was a handful of people with little popular support, next to no support among the tribal leadership, and who are significantly hampered by an avowed refusal to recognize the sitting elected governments of the Lakota nation (due to what they term "stay-by-the-fort", that is, collaborationist tendencies).

I never said any of these ideas were likely to come to fruition, I'm just saying what I think is right. I'd never force those areas to become independent regardless of the wishes of the people, I'd rather convince them to do so.
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RedKing

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6592 on: April 24, 2014, 05:04:56 pm »

Being a Southern progressive has long been the shittiest political position in the country. Because you get vilified from both sides.

I remember when I was out in Oregon and someone asked where I was from. When I said North Carolina, their response was "I'm sorry." I just kinda stared at the guy for a minute and then moved on to talking to someone else. (and no, I don't think he meant this in reference to our current state government)

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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
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Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

Culise

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6593 on: April 24, 2014, 05:07:03 pm »

The closest to independence Hawaii is going to get is the natives getting the same rights as Mainland natives including their own government.
Yeah, and it wouldn't be a terrible thing to happen, either; the mainland natives have their own semi-autonomous government organizations, after all.  The Akaka Bill has been floating around since the turn of the century, and it doesn't seem such a dangerous thing to me. 

I never said any of these ideas were likely to come to fruition, I'm just saying what I think is right. I'd never force those areas to become independent regardless of the wishes of the people, I'd rather convince them to do so.
Mmm.  I disagree in that I believe that a decision based on popular sovereignty based on the opinions of those affected is the closest to "right" that you can get in these circumstances, regardless of the outcome of that decision, but I can respect that, especially since you place the root of that belief in the wishes of the locals as well rather than forcing such an opinion against their will. 
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mainiac

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6594 on: April 24, 2014, 05:11:44 pm »

I remember when I was out in Oregon and someone asked where I was from. When I said North Carolina, their response was "I'm sorry." I just kinda stared at the guy for a minute and then moved on to talking to someone else. (and no, I don't think he meant this in reference to our current state government)

Don't worry, my fellow mid-Atlanticer, we can form our own region with blackjack and hookers!  Just please please please dont tell Georgia what we're doing.  They scare us.
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RedKing

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6595 on: April 24, 2014, 05:17:27 pm »

Sorry, Maryland isn't eligible for the Democratic People's Republic of Carolina. We may be able to work out some kind of guest worker visa for the hookers though.

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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

Frumple

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6596 on: April 24, 2014, 05:25:25 pm »

Being a Southern progressive has long been the shittiest political position in the country. Because you get vilified from both sides.

I remember when I was out in Oregon and someone asked where I was from. When I said North Carolina, their response was "I'm sorry." I just kinda stared at the guy for a minute and then moved on to talking to someone else. (and no, I don't think he meant this in reference to our current state government)
Yeah, NC's fairly alright. It even has mountains. And seasons. And I think industry that's not primarily tourism or agriculture based? Not nearly as much to offer condolences for, there. Do vaguely remember some demographic issues in certain areas, and the attendant problems, but outside of y'all's government you've got some pretty nice places. Have visited a couple, heh.

Like. No candle on north florida, or swaths of the rest of the local tri-state region.
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RedKing

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6597 on: April 24, 2014, 05:42:17 pm »

We have mountains *and* beaches. And a diverse agricultural sector. And strong financial, biotech and IT industries. And a world-class university system. And a reasonable cost of living. And we're frequently voted one of the top places to live in the US. We're also historically one of the most progressive of the Southern states, the vanguard of the New South.

So when some latte-drinking dick decides to crack wise about my home state, I don't take it well.

Yeah, we've got rednecks and places that even I cringe at (and I'm fairly tolerant of rural conservatives, because I come from a rather extended family of them). But so does every state. Eastern Oregon is not exactly a hippie commune.
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Remember, knowledge is power. The power to make other people feel stupid.
Quote from: Neil DeGrasse Tyson
Science is like an inoculation against charlatans who would have you believe whatever it is they tell you.

WealthyRadish

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6598 on: April 24, 2014, 07:17:09 pm »

The South definitely has a lot of bad stereotypes that don't seem relevant anymore, at least in my experience visiting and driving through. Don't know how you guys stand the humidity, though, main reason I've always preferred the West. Every time I get off a plane in DIA, it's such a relief to breath that dry air. I think I've seen mold here twice in my life.
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kaijyuu

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6599 on: April 24, 2014, 07:38:38 pm »

Stereotypes are dumb. I'm more concerned with the actual problems round these parts; here in good ol' South Carolina, we still have people in the government who deny "natural selection" and want schools to promote "other theories."

If the South seceded tomorrow I'd probably be packing my bags, solely because the government here is corrupt as fuck.
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Quote from: Chesterton
For, in order that men should resist injustice, something more is necessary than that they should think injustice unpleasant. They must think injustice absurd; above all, they must think it startling. They must retain the violence of a virgin astonishment. When the pessimist looks at any infamy, it is to him, after all, only a repetition of the infamy of existence. But the optimist sees injustice as something discordant and unexpected, and it stings him into action.
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