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Bay12 Presidential Focus Polling 2016

Ted Cruz
- 7 (6.5%)
Rick Santorum
- 16 (14.8%)
Michelle Bachmann
- 13 (12%)
Chris Christie
- 23 (21.3%)
Rand Paul
- 49 (45.4%)

Total Members Voted: 107


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Author Topic: Bay12 Election Night Watch Party  (Read 608876 times)

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6600 on: April 23, 2014, 08:39:43 pm »

This doesn't actually get rid of affirmative action. It just rules that the states have the right to democratically decide whether or not to allow race to be a factor in collage admissions. Whether or not that will lead to them being struck down is still a null point.
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nenjin

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6601 on: April 23, 2014, 08:43:02 pm »

This doesn't actually get rid of affirmative action. It just rules that the states have the right to democratically decide whether or not to allow race to be a factor in collage admissions. Whether or not that will lead to them being struck down is still a null point.

Might prove for some interesting sociological data after a few years, states that eliminated or retained AA.
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kaijyuu

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6602 on: April 23, 2014, 08:45:21 pm »

This doesn't actually get rid of affirmative action. It just rules that the states have the right to democratically decide whether or not to allow race to be a factor in collage admissions. Whether or not that will lead to them being struck down is still a null point.

Might prove for some interesting sociological data after a few years, states that eliminated or retained AA.
I imagine Bad Things for racial minorities for states that do, but hey, this is one thing I'd love to be proven wrong on. Affirmative action is one of those necessary evils you want to get rid of asap.
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misko27

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6603 on: April 23, 2014, 09:01:01 pm »

From the news I've heard the states that have banned it (including California for some reason, 16 years ago even) have seen declining rates in minority attendance, so it seems not.

I am also surprised that this has not appeared here: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/23/upshot/the-american-middle-class-is-no-longer-the-worlds-richest.html?_r=0
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6604 on: April 23, 2014, 09:05:20 pm »

While decreasing minority attendance is a problem, I've never believed that affirmative action was the way to correct that problem. A much better way would be heavy investment in the educational and family support infrastructure in minority-heavy areas (as they obviously are undersupported) combined with very strict scrutiny of the admissions process in order to ensure that minorities aren't being unfairly denied access. This would, of course, be much more difficult and expensive.
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GlyphGryph

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6605 on: April 23, 2014, 09:22:34 pm »

A much more worrying issue, to be honest, is the re-segregation of grade schools that have been happening at an alarming rate.

Of course, we also know that most of the states that are going to use this newly earned right to end affirmative action are the racist-as-fuck ones that required special laws targeting them because every time they were given an inch they used it as an excuse to shit all over blacks, disenfranchise them, kick them out of schools, and otherwise stamp them back into the dirt to prove their own superiority...
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TheDarkStar

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6606 on: April 23, 2014, 10:07:03 pm »

A much more worrying issue, to be honest, is the re-segregation of grade schools that have been happening at an alarming rate.

In the South, part of the issue is that blacks (African-Americans if that's offensive in your region) tend to be poorer than whites, largely due to ancestry and racism, so you see schools segregated based on how much it costs to get into them, with blacks/African-Americans being forced to go to the cheaper ones because of how much money they have.

I don't have a good idea of how it is elsewhere, since (especially in the North and Northwest areas) there are almost entirely white people and Native Americans, and then a very small amount of other ethnicities.
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RedKing

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6607 on: April 23, 2014, 10:16:11 pm »

At the grade school level, this often dovetails with "natural" segregation on economic lines such as what TheDarkStar is referencing. That's why Wake County, NC (where I live) made national news a couple of years ago when its GOP-dominated school board voted to end busing and rezone schools based purely on geographic locality. Which makes perfect sense if the population were evenly distributed. It's cheaper, the schools are more tied to the local communities, etc. This also makes it easy to argue for, even if you're dogwhistling in favor of resegregation. It also inflames the debate because there are parents and advocates who genuinely ARE pushing for it with good intent and are then taken aback to be called racists.

The problem is that you have rich, white parts of town, and poor, black parts of town. Guess which parts of town are going to have better schools and more children who are well-prepared when they enter school? NC attempted to head some of that disparity off with Head Start, a pre-K program for poor and minority families to get their children up to readiness for kindergarten. Of course, the GOP legislature has all but gutted that in the last couple of years. *sigh*
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misko27

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6608 on: April 23, 2014, 10:29:29 pm »

A much more worrying issue, to be honest, is the re-segregation of grade schools that have been happening at an alarming rate.

In the South, part of the issue is that blacks (African-Americans if that's offensive in your region) tend to be poorer than whites, largely due to ancestry and racism, so you see schools segregated based on how much it costs to get into them, with blacks/African-Americans being forced to go to the cheaper ones because of how much money they have.

I don't have a good idea of how it is elsewhere, since (especially in the North and Northwest areas) there are almost entirely white people and Native Americans, and then a very small amount of other ethnicities.
Hmm? Did I just hear few ethnicities? I can't speak for Maine and Vermont (they're the whitest states you know), but here in NYC white people actually aren't even the majority anymore, merely a 44% plurality. Same thing though...
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mainiac

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6609 on: April 23, 2014, 10:30:35 pm »

So they're getting rid of affirmative action in prisons too, right?
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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Sheb

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6610 on: April 24, 2014, 03:39:20 am »

I'm actually split about affirmative actions. I used to oppose it, but then I read that book by Esther Dufflo about a study she did in India, where reserving a third of the village chiefs seats for women had very positive results (basically, those village that had been forced to have a woman chief were more likely to elect a woman afterward).

Now I'm in favor of it, on the condition that it's limited in time, and monitored for effectiveness in ending prejudice.

Now, as for affirmative action in college, it seems racial affirmative actions isn't the best way to do it. IIRC, Texas managed to keep minorities in college through a program offering place for the top 10% students of each high school (so poor black attending poor schools can get in too). This seems much better to me, as in addition to racial segregation you also have a lot of income segregation in the State, and this is a way to kill two birds with one stone.
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Helgoland

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6611 on: April 24, 2014, 06:08:06 am »

If the problem is an economic one, the obvious solution appears to be to switch to European-style school financing - not finance the local school via local taxes, but all the schools via all the taxes taxes from everyone.
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mainiac

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6612 on: April 24, 2014, 06:10:55 am »

Now, as for affirmative action in college, it seems racial affirmative actions isn't the best way to do it. IIRC, Texas managed to keep minorities in college through a program offering place for the top 10% students of each high school (so poor black attending poor schools can get in too). This seems much better to me, as in addition to racial segregation you also have a lot of income segregation in the State, and this is a way to kill two birds with one stone.

Yeah and that would have been a better system, but that's not the system we are getting.
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« Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM »
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pisskop

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6613 on: April 24, 2014, 06:49:26 am »

Thread: 'Supreme Court upholds Michigan affirmative action ban'
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The Supreme Court on Tuesday upheld a Michigan law banning the use of racial criteria in college admissions, a key decision in an unfolding legal and political battle nationally over affirmative action.

The justices found 6-2 that a lower court did not have the authority to set aside the measure approved in a 2006 referendum supported by 58% of voters.

It bars publicly funded colleges from granting "preferential treatment to any individual or group on the basis of race, sex, color, ethnicity or national origin."

Justice Sonia Sotomayor reacted sharply in disagreeing with the decision.

Pick your poison:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/22/justice/scotus-michigan-affirmative-action/index.html
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/22/supreme-court-upholds-michigan-affirmative-action-ban/
http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2014/4/23/michigan-affirmativeaction.html

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Sheb

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Re: Emperor Norton's Imperial Politics Megathread
« Reply #6614 on: April 24, 2014, 06:54:27 am »

Now, as for affirmative action in college, it seems racial affirmative actions isn't the best way to do it. IIRC, Texas managed to keep minorities in college through a program offering place for the top 10% students of each high school (so poor black attending poor schools can get in too). This seems much better to me, as in addition to racial segregation you also have a lot of income segregation in the State, and this is a way to kill two birds with one stone.

Yeah and that would have been a better system, but that's not the system we are getting.

But my understanding was that recent rulings recognized that university have an interest in maintaining diversity, but that they have to do it in the least discriminatory manner possible. So even if universities are banned from doing racial discrimination, they could easily enforce income discrimination to get around it.
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