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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1238373 times)

Sinistar

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #13695 on: January 07, 2015, 11:24:56 am »

Don't think he's advocating it but I think it would be a rather likely outcome.
Exactly. Assuming that in case of major terror tolerance will remain a thing is naive. Sporadic actions like this one are unlikely to get the same kind of answer but regular regular attacks will throw a lot of shit on the fan.
I'll have to side with this pessimistic outlook here. Maybe not outright mob-lynching of random Muslim individuals but that whole anti-Islamisation thing I was raging about less than 24h ago (ffs what are the chances) will only grow stronger with people frothing around their mouth crying "See?!? SEE?!! We TOLD you Islam = BAD!" instead of trying to solve this like rational adults.

In regards to IRA: I'll confess that I know less about the whole conflict than I'd like to but religion also played important part during the Troubles, no? And again, I don't know the details, but I'll make a guess and say that these days Muslim communities are still considered more alien in lots of European countries and thus more "problematic" than Catholic/Anglican communities in (Northern) Ireland. So that's why, personally, think this situation is more of a hot kettle than the Irish one.
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miauw62

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #13696 on: January 07, 2015, 11:27:45 am »

Penis is pronounced and spelled the same in French as in English? lol. Or maybe the word itself has french origins, no idea. Wouldn't be surprised.

I get the bilingual joke though.

and uh, 'shadow kremlin money'? I'm guessing that's some sort of Belgian politics thing.
Moe is Dutch for "tired" and is is dutch for, well, is.
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Knowing Belgium, everyone will vote for themselves out of mistrust for anyone else, and some kind of weird direct democracy coalition will need to be formed from 11 million or so individuals.

Morrigi

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #13697 on: January 07, 2015, 11:29:11 am »

Isn't all the gun control in Europe supposed to prevent this sort of thing?
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Vilanat

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #13698 on: January 07, 2015, 11:30:40 am »


I'll have to side with this pessimistic outlook here. Maybe not outright mob-lynching of random Muslim individuals but that whole anti-Islamisation thing I was raging about less than 24h ago (ffs what are the chances) will only grow stronger with people frothing around their mouth crying "See?!? SEE?!! We TOLD you Islam = BAD!" instead of trying to solve this like rational adults.


What is a rational solution to an attack like this?
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #13699 on: January 07, 2015, 11:38:59 am »

Calm down, don't make any changes to the law. Hunt the terrorists, arrest them, charge them, put them in prison. Put increased security around potential targets of attack. Put out public information messages + statements to get the message across that not all Muslims are terrorists and even the ones that are are still French citizens.

Isn't all the gun control in Europe supposed to prevent this sort of thing?

*cough*
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 11:40:55 am by Owlbread »
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Boltgun

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #13700 on: January 07, 2015, 11:45:30 am »

Isn't all the gun control in Europe supposed to prevent this sort of thing?

It prevents my neighbor from shooting me. But weapon smuggling and high banditry are still a thing. This is why it's obviously an act from IS or Al Quaida and not three nuts who bought AR15s.

Some of my favorite cartoonists died there, I have no words.
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Sinistar

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #13701 on: January 07, 2015, 11:46:39 am »

Thank you, Owlbread, that's what I should include in my post in the first place instead of just complaining.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #13702 on: January 07, 2015, 11:47:01 am »

Isn't all the gun control in Europe supposed to prevent this sort of thing?
Gun control is supposed to prevent escalation of spontanous crimes, and other emotional things.

It won't help with preplanned attacks.
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Erkki

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #13703 on: January 07, 2015, 11:58:36 am »

Isn't all the gun control in Europe supposed to prevent this sort of thing?

It prevents my neighbor from shooting me. But weapon smuggling and high banditry are still a thing. This is why it's obviously an act from IS or Al Quaida and not three nuts who bought AR15s.

Some of my favorite cartoonists died there, I have no words.

Spoiler:  two of the gunmen (click to show/hide)

AK-47s or its derivates luckily. Apparently there are 10 wounded: had they had AR15s there could be even more bodies (because of the way the lighter fragmenting high velocity bullet behaves in flesh when shot at close range compared to 7,62 x 39 or 5,45 x 39). Assault rifles are still assault rifles though, but maybe they didn't have the time to stay and make sure everyone they wanted was dead?

I don't think those 3 are of the type that surrenders if caught. I hope the French police will find and neutralize them without further victims...  :-\
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 12:02:52 pm by Erkki »
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Owlbread

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #13704 on: January 07, 2015, 12:06:27 pm »

AK-47s or its derivates luckily. Apparently there are 10 wounded: had they had AR15s there could be even more bodies (because of the way the lighter fragmenting high velocity bullet behaves in flesh when shot at close range compared to 7,62 x 39 or 5,45 x 39).

I think this is a very minor factor. It doesn't really matter what gun they're using, it matters whether people are able to get away and how composed the gunmen are. As I said a taxidriver in the North of England in 2010 killed more people than the terrorists did today using a .22 bolt action rifle and a double barreled shotgun.

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Assault rifles are still assault rifles though,

An AR15 is not an assault rifle - it is a rifle. If it had a selector switch it would be an assault rifle and AR15s don't have selector switches. This is a very rare occasion in which the spree killers are apparently using "assault rifles". Trying to do that in the States would cost you over a thousand dollars - if not over $5,000.

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but maybe they didn't have the time to stay and make sure everyone they wanted was dead?

I don't think those 3 are of the type that surrenders if caught. I hope the French police will find and neutralize them without further victims...  :-\

That's the scary thing here. This is still an ongoing event - we talked earlier about the terrorists attacking a government location or something, what if they plan on doing that next?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 12:11:01 pm by Owlbread »
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Sheb

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #13705 on: January 07, 2015, 12:09:45 pm »

What I find really weird is that Hollande gave a speech on the crime scene a mere 90 minutes after the attack, with the shooter still on the run. Isn't that a bit reckless?
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Erkki

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #13706 on: January 07, 2015, 12:20:01 pm »

AK-47s or its derivates luckily. Apparently there are 10 wounded: had they had AR15s there could be even more bodies (because of the way the lighter fragmenting high velocity bullet behaves in flesh when shot at close range compared to 7,62 x 39 or 5,45 x 39).

I think this is a very minor factor. It doesn't really matter what gun they're using, it matters whether people are able to get away and how composed the gunmen are. As I said a taxidriver in the North of England in 2010 killed more people than the terrorists did today using a .22 bolt action rifle and a double barreled shotgun.

Yes, wounds produced by all of them are immediately lethal almost regardless where the victims are hit. But theres still a huge difference between a bullet that fragments within a body and turns all that 1,5 kJ of energy into work that creates wound cavities and in worst case immediately dismembering an arm or a leg, and a solid non-fragmenting bullet that just goes through making a 6 or 8 mm hole and little else leaving the victim to bleed.

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Quote
Assault rifles are still assault rifles though,

An AR15 is not an assault rifle - it is a rifle. If it had a selector switch it would be an assault rifle and AR15s don't have selector switches.


The difference is almost meaningless - even in military use the burst or serial fire modes are used only rarely. Actually, since their guns were probably AK-47s or AK-74 series, the weapons those terrorists carried could have even been legal semi-auto versions that had been modified to full auto capable(and thus also illegal) literally in minutes with the right tools. There are even youtube video guides on how to do it...
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Phmcw

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #13707 on: January 07, 2015, 12:32:14 pm »

The witnesses said that they used automatic fire, which isn't surprising : the black market is flooded with AK's form the ex-ussr. They are said to cost between 1000-1500Ä if you know where to buy.

Terribly illegal, though, and only used by serious criminals.
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Erkki

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #13708 on: January 07, 2015, 12:34:09 pm »

The witnesses said that they used automatic fire, which isn't surprising : the black market is flooded with AK's form the ex-ussr. They are said to cost between 1000-1500Ä if you know where to buy.

Terribly illegal, though, and only used by serious criminals.

Wait... Thats in Belgium, or France?!?!?
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Phmcw

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #13709 on: January 07, 2015, 12:35:56 pm »

Both, from what I heard. Probably all of western Europe with the possible exeption of England thanks to the channel.

A few sources : http://www.ladepeche.fr/article/2012/08/31/1429366-marseille-500-la-kalachnikov-au-marche-noir.html
http://probe.20minutes-blogs.fr/archive/2010/11/26/le-mythe-de-la-kalashnikov-de-banlieue.html
« Last Edit: January 07, 2015, 12:38:39 pm by Phmcw »
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