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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 906388 times)

miljan

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5745 on: May 23, 2014, 02:50:10 pm »

Ohh we are not in ukraine thread anymore, yee will change that
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RedKing

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5746 on: May 23, 2014, 02:53:40 pm »

How would one fare in America if he or she would call Republican or Democrat supporters "zombies" in articles written for news sites?

Umm....you'd get offered your own half-hour show on FOX or MSNBC, depending on which one you're slagging. Or more likely a radio show.
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Comrade P.

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5747 on: May 23, 2014, 03:04:30 pm »

It is a war of ideologies, it is a war between Ukraine and Russian Federation.

Except the fact that Russian Army shamefully diverged from attending the battlefield. And the Ukrainian "Dnepr" private batallion and National Guard is marching victorious through their homelands, fighting the enemies.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5748 on: May 23, 2014, 03:07:08 pm »

Quote
I dont see how this will end without federalization of the country now
Elimination of Russian special forces and leaders among collaborators and no "federelazition" needed. Not an easy task but... I repeat once again, there are no civil war

Quote
Some videos of Ukraine (pro kiev) attacking their own soldiers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osQmRUxhwVQ
Oh, that fake got here... How people can see attacking here Is beyond my understanding. Yeah, helicopters arrived too late .
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

miljan

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5749 on: May 23, 2014, 03:11:44 pm »

Quote
I dont see how this will end without federalization of the country now
Elimination of Russian special forces and leaders among collaborators and no "federelazition" needed. Not an easy task but... I repeat once again, there are no civil war


Yee the problem is that people want federation, so the thing you will need to eliminate is them, and that will not happen (i hope). And yes, this is exactly civil war
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5750 on: May 23, 2014, 03:23:46 pm »

Most people who want "federalization" don't even understand what that word means. Majority of the ones who took arms are either following Russian orders or get their chance to enjoy lawlessness with few who actually fight for that idea. + gullible people who provide them with assistance, not understanding what is going on/
  Don't you think that scale is somewhat small for a civil war? There are no masses of volunteers that go to fight for "DNR" At most they have like 20 000 combatants. That is nothing for a 6 million region. Especially considering how many moved from Russia

You see, I have different sources of information then you, guys.
Right now, there are a family from Kramatorsk living in my home. Oh yes, people there are mad at Ukrainian army. Army that fails to go and protect them against Russian soldiers, North Caucasus mercaniers and local criminals that captured the city.  There are no local insurgents. And I believe people that came from the war zone, not that Russian fairy tales about self-organized militia
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

misko27

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5751 on: May 23, 2014, 03:26:27 pm »

Liberals in the US have been called zombies for years, it's nothing new.
Reversed: Conservatives are mindless zombie consumerists, Liberals are strange, foreign, welfare-sucking Vampires. So for the Twilight series, we have no one to blame but Obama. Thanks Obama. The US is nothing if not very, very internally stable. Downturns tend to soil feelings, and it will be a while till polarization subsides.

Of course the US has goes through this and comes out, but the same can't be said for Ukraine and Russia. Polarization in a situation where war is on the table is a very dangerous thing indeed.
Well it looks like its civil war in Ukraine . Pro russian are using guerrilla fighting, and hiding in pro ukraine supporters in the city. I dont see how this will end without federalization of the country now

Some videos of Ukraine (pro kiev) attacking their own soldiers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osQmRUxhwVQ
A) I don't see how federalization is necessary. I can imagine numerous situations where it does not occur. B) Federalization is likely, but the devil is in the details. It could be anywhere from a Kiev stripped of all real power to minor changes. I know people like to deride diplomacy, but really all war is diplomacy with force, so events on the ground matter a lot to how exactly the inevitable diplomatic agreement looks like, and less to whether or not there will be one at all.

So any news from UK?
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5752 on: May 23, 2014, 03:27:29 pm »

It's pretty weird that even with internet and stuff, we can still find people sitting in their own reality bubbles, interpreting news to their liking.

Also, if your army can't defeat "those pro-Russians are pathetic both in numbers, bravery and ability to wage war", then they are even more pathetic.

EDIT: scratch that, I need to cool down.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 03:34:01 pm by Sergarr »
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Darvi

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5753 on: May 23, 2014, 03:31:27 pm »

When I hear "civil war" I can't help but imagine two sides resolving their conflict in a polite and gentlemanly manner.

And then somebody makes a forum game based on that.
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miljan

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5754 on: May 23, 2014, 03:34:03 pm »

Actually 20 000 fighters is a lot for 6 milion region (who knows how many supporters they have that are not fighters). Its obvious they have a huge support from locale, otherwise they would not survive at all. Hope they can hold up the siege from kiev, and try to fight guerrilla style, that's the way to go when you are military outnumbered but have support from locals.

The sooner kiev realize that they should talk to people there, the better, or this will spill out all over for years to come.
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Mictlantecuhtli

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5755 on: May 23, 2014, 03:34:34 pm »

When I hear "civil war" I can't help but imagine two sides resolving their conflict in a polite and gentlemanly manner.

And then somebody makes a forum game based on that.

Quote
A civil war is a form of warfare known for its kindness and civility, in stark contrast to the other tactics such as scorched earth which are entirely too dirty for upstanding gentlemen. Civil warfare is a strategy that has outlasted many minor fads in warfare such as Germany's Blitzkrieg Bop, the British Redcoat's Stand In a Line and Shoot or the French Foreign Legion's Surrender. Its longevity as a tactic can probably be attributed to a few things, namely the incompetence of modern military tacticians compared to those of the past and the universal human need for cordial smiles and small talk, even during battle.
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Darvi

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5756 on: May 23, 2014, 03:36:28 pm »

Many thanks for that delightfully entertaining quote.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5757 on: May 23, 2014, 03:38:03 pm »

Our army is indeed in a very poor shape, especially leaderships. Underequiped, undertrained, full of Russian agents. But they fight not against militia. There are hundreds if not thousands of well trained and well equipped Russians who happily use terrorist tactics

I remember quite well hysteria of Strelok with his speech that can be summarized as "People of Donbass, pleeeeease go fight.We need cannon fodder. Women, please come and take arms. Life news needs photos of dead women"
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Darvi

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5758 on: May 23, 2014, 03:39:04 pm »

Women, please come and take arms. Life news needs photos of dead women"
Anybody wanna bet they got that idea from watching the US media?
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5759 on: May 23, 2014, 03:47:19 pm »

As for local support of the terrorist... Sure. 10, maybe 20%, do support that "independence' movement . That is enough to fully control the situation when majority(including corrupt and incompetent law enforcement) is scared and does nothing


Edit:

As for negotiations... Does anyone here think that Ukrainian government should negotiate with Her?
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 03:54:50 pm by Ukrainian Ranger »
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.
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