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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 905299 times)

miljan

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5760 on: May 23, 2014, 03:58:05 pm »

For someone terrorist, for some freedom fighters.

10, or 20%? Or maybe 60 or 70% support it. Or maybe 90%? Hack I can trow the numbers all i want, the fact is, the fighters are operating in a city that probably majority support them, otherwise, they would not survive this long at all.

I know that you do not want to believe that most people support "terrorist", but how the things are going, it looks like they do have support, a lot more than you want to believe.
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5761 on: May 23, 2014, 04:00:10 pm »

These Donetzk and Lugansk "republics" are pretty irrelevant, as their failing attempts at mobilization shows. What really matter are these militia guys who are the ones actually fighting with Ukraine army. I heard they have recently obtained an self-propelling artillery piece.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5762 on: May 23, 2014, 04:05:37 pm »

Quote
the fact is, the fighters are operating in a city that probably majority support them, otherwise, they would not survive this long at all.
What can a city, where 80% unarmed are against armed trained group + 20% supports them. I want to hear your receipt of kicking them out....

That "governments" of that "republics". that leaders... there are hustlers, gang members, cheap whores and others like that. No single politician, businessmen, military officer or any other respectable member of society. No single person. It is obvious that they are nothing but hired puppets...
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5763 on: May 23, 2014, 04:09:00 pm »

politician
respectable member of society
That's some good quote material right here.
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miljan

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5764 on: May 23, 2014, 04:15:12 pm »

Quote
the fact is, the fighters are operating in a city that probably majority support them, otherwise, they would not survive this long at all.
What can a city, where 80% unarmed are against armed trained group + 20% supports them. I want to hear your receipt of kicking them out....

That "governments" of that "republics". that leaders... there are hustlers, gang members, cheap whores and others like that. No single politician, businessmen, military officer or any other respectable member of society. No single person. It is obvious that they are nothing but hired puppets...

What can they do? Everything, they have pro kiev military close to them in different regions. What do you think 5 milion people cando too several thousands, dont be blind. They can do anything from massive protesting on streets, to massive guerrilla fighting, and getting arms from ukraine soldiers. But you will not see anything from that, because there is no 80% of kiev supporters.

As said, , like it or not but pro russian fighters would never be able to survive for this long without majority support from those regions.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5765 on: May 23, 2014, 04:24:33 pm »

Quote
What can they do? Everything, they have pro kiev military close to them in different regions. What do you think 5 milion people cando too several thousands, dont be blind. They can do anything from massive protesting on streets, to massive guerrilla fighting, and getting arms from ukraine soldiers. But you will not see anything from that, because there is no 80% of kiev supporters.
You assume that they are brave enough to risk their lives like that while we talking about that always was very passive politically.... They hope that army will come and save them. Can't blame people for the lack of bravery because even peaceful protesting can get them killed.

« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 04:27:05 pm by Ukrainian Ranger »
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5766 on: May 23, 2014, 04:27:56 pm »

How many people were at Maydan? Cuz the possibility of death clearly did not bother these people.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5767 on: May 23, 2014, 04:37:32 pm »

How many people were at Maydan? Cuz the possibility of death clearly did not bother these people.
Maydan is from a different region that always was  politically active. Besides Maydan is one thing, pointless suicide is another


No, I want to hear your proposal:

We have 100 000 sized city
We have a group of armed  soldiers that captured all key buildings
We have police that either ran away or joined them
We have weapons given to everyone willing (including any criminal)
We know that this guys kidnap, torture and kill pro-Ukrainians

What can population do to kick them out? even if it is 95 000 vs 5 000? I want to hear your offers. 
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

miljan

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5768 on: May 23, 2014, 04:40:23 pm »

Quote
What can they do? Everything, they have pro kiev military close to them in different regions. What do you think 5 milion people cando too several thousands, dont be blind. They can do anything from massive protesting on streets, to massive guerrilla fighting, and getting arms from ukraine soldiers. But you will not see anything from that, because there is no 80% of kiev supporters.
You assume that they are brave enough to risk their lives like that while we talking about that always was very passive politically.... They hope that army will come and save them. Can't blame people for the lack of bravery because even peaceful protesting can get them killed.
They are not brave? If there is 80% support, there is no way on this world people would not go out on mass to protest, especially as the military is near them. I know you are trying to think every possible way, and throw any number that suits you, but the thing is this would not happen if there was no huge support for it in those regions. Its simple as that.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 04:43:14 pm by miljan »
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5769 on: May 23, 2014, 04:42:45 pm »

How many people were at Maydan? Cuz the possibility of death clearly did not bother these people.
Maydan is from a different region that always was  politically active. Besides Maydan is one thing, pointless suicide is another


No, I want to hear your proposal:

We have 100 000 sized city
We have a group of armed  soldiers that captured all key buildings
We have police that either ran away or joined them
We have weapons given to everyone willing (including any criminal)
We know that this guys kidnap, torture and kill pro-Ukrainians

What can population do to kick them out? even if it is 95 000 vs 5 000? I want to hear your offers.
They can use Internet and mobile phones to establish a link with Ukraininan military to tell them of ALL THEIR MOVEMENTS.

And then call a precision air strike. Combined with spec-ops raid.

You seem to vastly underestimate just how much damage a single person with a mobile phone can cause.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5770 on: May 23, 2014, 04:53:11 pm »

Quote
They are not brave? If there is 80% support, there is no way on this world people would not go out on mass to protest, especially as the military is near them.
Go protest and get a  bullet? Have you heard a word terror? Openly Pro-Ukrainian = dead. And no, army can't protect a crowd against a machine-gun and snipers


Quote
They can use Internet and mobile phones to establish a link with Ukraininan military to tell them of ALL THEIR MOVEMENTS.
And then call a precision air strike. Combined with spec-ops raid.
You seem to vastly underestimate just how much damage a single person with a mobile phone can cause.
Who said that this is not done? That is exactly how "journalists" with a handheld SAM were captured. But you overestimate effectiveness of such measures. Furthemore spec-ops are not that effective when used against another spec ops. And unfortunately there are no air-strikes, they are just not allowed with our government being scared of civilian causalities. Probably it is better than Russian methods in Chechnya
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

miljan

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5771 on: May 23, 2014, 05:02:15 pm »

Quote
They are not brave? If there is 80% support, there is no way on this world people would not go out on mass to protest, especially as the military is near them.
Go protest and get a  bullet? Have you heard a word terror? Openly Pro-Ukrainian = dead. And no, army can't protect a crowd against a machine-gun and snipers


Quote
They can use Internet and mobile phones to establish a link with Ukraininan military to tell them of ALL THEIR MOVEMENTS.
And then call a precision air strike. Combined with spec-ops raid.
You seem to vastly underestimate just how much damage a single person with a mobile phone can cause.
Who said that this is not done? That is exactly how "journalists" with a handheld SAM were captured. But you overestimate effectiveness of such measures. Furthemore spec-ops are not that effective when used against another spec ops. And unfortunately there are no air-strikes, they are just not allowed with our government being scared of civilian causalities. Probably it is better than Russian methods in Chechnya
Have you heard of word propaganda? Thinking that they will just shoot at protesters with machine gun is just funny as hell. They will probably drink their blood after it xD.

There is no possible way to keep this long without the support of the people. The only reason why its taking so long and there's so much defence is  because people are not afraid of them, but are supporting them. Real civil war
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5772 on: May 23, 2014, 05:07:30 pm »

Quote
Have you heard of word propaganda? Thinking that they will just shoot at protesters with machine gun is just funny as hell.
Why not? Russian journalists will say that Right Sector did it. Other journalists are not allowed by the terrorists
Besides there are more subtle ways to to terrorize. Like go home of organizers of protests, kidnap and torture to death. Can't you understand how scared people there are?

As for why it takes so long... Ask our government why they don't give an order to assault , limiting themselves with some spec-ops operation and low scale bombardment... That standing around the city is tiresome
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

miljan

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5773 on: May 23, 2014, 05:15:53 pm »

Quote
Have you heard of word propaganda? Thinking that they will just shoot at protesters with machine gun is just funny as hell.
Why not? Russian journalists will say that Right Sector did it. Other journalists are not allowed by the terrorists
Besides there are more subtle ways to to terrorize. Like go home of organizers of protests, kidnap and torture to death. Can't you understand how scared people there are?

As for why it takes so long... Ask our government why they don't give an order to assault , limiting themselves with some spec-ops operation and low scale bombardment... That standing around the city is tiresome
Yes, russian will do it, as always they will kill them all. Heh. Wake up dude, you are really too much affected by propaganda.

Can't you understand that people actually support them?

They dont ask because they know people are not pro kiev in those region, and they will have a lot of problems with it. Thats why its taking so slow.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Politics Megathread
« Reply #5774 on: May 23, 2014, 05:22:20 pm »

Quote
Yes, russian will do it, as always they will kill them all. Heh. Wake up dude, you are really too much affected by propaganda.
Those are (exactly like) the ones who committed atrocities in Checnya. They are capable to do just anything. Open fire at a crowd, use chemical weapon, blow up the whole city. Any kind of warcime is possible

But hell if you want to believe Russian propagandas about spontaneously appeared benevolent militia with 96% support I am not gonna waste anymore time to try to change your opinion
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.
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