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Author Topic: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!  (Read 1100585 times)

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #19140 on: August 14, 2015, 04:27:45 pm »

Killing pro-Russian collaborationists and Russian-appointed administration, no?
One quarter of our parliament are  pro-Russian collaborationists. As well as so many other persons. Starting from Kyiv will be a more logical route for Right Sector


I find it worrisome that Russian start talking about Right Sector in Crimea. Sergarr is the fifth Russian I hear it from must be Russian media related. Crimean economy is slowly collapsing and Russians may distract local population with pseudo Right Sector terror. 
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

scriver

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #19141 on: August 14, 2015, 04:34:22 pm »

I though Xena was Greek. Can Feta into Crimea?
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Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #19142 on: August 14, 2015, 05:04:18 pm »

Crimean economy is slowly collapsing
Hold on, let me get into my bullshit graphs stash... ah, here it is:

In addition to that, Sharij, the person who openly said that Crimea should be in Ukraine, sometimes puts videos (in Russian language) with comparisons between prices in Ukraine and Crimea (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mfn2eQ3FVI and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1jq3IJKQuI are just a few of those) , where it can be simply seen that prices in Ukraine are quite a bit higher than those in Crimea. Not to mention that people in Crimea get Russian salaries, which are (obviously) higher than Ukrainian ones.

It's easy for people experiencing economical collapse to imagine that places that are supposed to be worse off (like Crimea, from your position) must also experience economical collapses.
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Helgoland

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #19143 on: August 14, 2015, 05:17:48 pm »

Looking good next to a country suffering from decades of corruption, a recent revolution, and an ongoing undeclared war is indicative of very little, Sergarr.
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I'm going to do the smart thing here and disengage. This isn't a hill I paticularly care to die on.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #19144 on: August 14, 2015, 05:26:23 pm »

Looking good next to a country suffering from decades of corruption, a recent revolution, and an ongoing undeclared war is indicative of very little, Sergarr.
It's very indicative against bullshit like "Crimean economy is worse than it was in Ukraine!!1" that is very widespread in Ukraine.

Also, see this:
Hold on, let me get into my bullshit graphs stash... ah, here it is:
;)
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #19145 on: August 14, 2015, 05:43:37 pm »

Oh, Sergarr, You see, Problems in Ukrainian economy can't help Crimean (or Russian on wider scale)
Crimean economy is collapsing and while "it is worse in Ukraine" may work for some time, Crimeans may need a distraction from quartered tourism flow, suffering agriculture, inactive ports and no foreign investments.

As for your graph, large chunk of Ukrainian lost GDP is Donbass. They got even more economical prosperity than Crimea.

Helgoland, To be honest I am amazed how the whole thing called Ukrainian economy didn't collapse. Everything essential still works. There are no mass closure of businesses or stuff like this. There are inflation and with new prices for natural gas and electricity winter will be hard for low income people but other than that I see nothing awful.

Quote
t's very indicative against bullshit like "Crimean economy is worse than it was in Ukraine!!1" that is very widespread in Ukraine.
Crimean economy is way worse than it was in 2013. It is a fact. Higher social benefits\salary for state workers from Russian budged pumped some money in it but Besides lets not forget that Russian rouble lost half of its value since Crimea was annexed.

Also, I am very curious how they can have lower prices for food if they import majority of food from Ukraine, but your Shariy looks like a very reliable source.
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

mainiac

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #19146 on: August 14, 2015, 05:53:04 pm »

It's very indicative against bullshit like "Crimean economy is worse than it was in Ukraine!!1" that is very widespread in Ukraine.

A different proposition entirely from what you were just talking about.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #19147 on: August 14, 2015, 06:00:45 pm »

It's very indicative against bullshit like "Crimean economy is worse than it was in Ukraine!!1" that is very widespread in Ukraine.

A different proposition entirely from what you were just talking about.
Different? Oh yes maybe. But to call Crimean economy as "collapsing" while it became so much better off than it was before... well it doesn't sit well with me.

Oh well, it's not like whatever I say here actually makes a difference in what is going to happen...
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mainiac

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #19148 on: August 14, 2015, 06:18:25 pm »

But your data didnt show it was better off then before the occupation.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
--------------
[CAN_INTERNET]
[PREFSTRING:google]
"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #19149 on: August 14, 2015, 06:25:37 pm »

But your data didnt show it was better off then before the occupation.

That's why I wrote
bullshit graphs
, duh
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #19150 on: August 14, 2015, 06:27:35 pm »

I want data about
1) Better state of agriculture
2) More and\or richer tourists
3) More traffic for their ports\railroad
4) More foreign investments
5) New businesses  opened and\or old businesses producing more

Or at least reasons why this could happen.
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

Sergarr

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #19151 on: August 14, 2015, 06:35:48 pm »

The reasons? I think I gave one back there:
Not to mention that people in Crimea get Russian salaries, which are (obviously) higher than Ukrainian ones.
I dunno what dark magic they used to lower the prices, but it's probably same in raw nature: lots and lots of money.
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Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #19152 on: August 14, 2015, 06:48:15 pm »

Heh, did you say that lots and lots of money result in lower prices?

They got more money. So what? I know very little about economics but I understand that more money to population will result in local economic growth only if money spent will go to local product, not go to other regions of Russia or abroad.

Also, not everyone lives of social benefit or state employed.
I don't know about unemployment payment in Russia but I suspect that it may be higher than some Ukrainian salaries. Am I right that if some factory is closed and all workers fired, but receive more money then they did on work = economy of the region grew?
« Last Edit: August 14, 2015, 06:50:29 pm by Ukrainian Ranger »
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.

mainiac

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #19153 on: August 14, 2015, 06:54:36 pm »

They got more money. So what? I know very little about economics but I understand that more money to population will result in local economic growth only if money spent will go to local product, not go to other regions of Russia or abroad.

Yeah your econ 101 GDP equation is just C+I+G+X.  X is the change in trade balance.  So if government spending goes up but "imports" go up the exact same amount, it's a wash for the area of study all else being equal.

But probably most of the spending is local (ignoring the embezzled part) so the question is how much the change in local spending compares to the change in tourism and the effects of disruption with the rest of Ukraine.
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Ancient Babylonian god of RAEG
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[CAN_INTERNET]
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"Don't tell me what you value. Show me your budget and I will tell you what you value"
Last Edit: February 10, 1988, 03:27:23 pm by UR MOM
mainiac is always a little sarcastic, at least.

Ukrainian Ranger

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Re: Sheb's European Megathread: Remove Feta!
« Reply #19154 on: August 14, 2015, 07:46:54 pm »

Russian Budged>Crimeans>Crimean Business>Investment in Crimean Business.

I think the chain should be like this, right? I'd love to see data how much cash goes this route but I doubt that reliable source can be found.
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War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.
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