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Author Topic: How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death  (Read 4718 times)

A_S00

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How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death
« on: February 26, 2013, 01:57:19 pm »

I've got a save point in which I've traded items away to the elves which were subsequently made subject ot an export ban.  At my save point, the elves have stopped trading, but haven't finished packing up, so they're still hanging out at the depot.

If I don't do anything, I've found (via save-scumming) that, as soon as the elves leave the map, my military goes postal and beats half my dwarves to death for violating an export ban.  I want to know if there's anything I can do to save my dwarves, starting at that save point.

Stuff I've tried:
-Changing mayors so that the export ban is lifted by the time the elves leave the map (doesn't help, dwarves still get beaten)
-Building a jail before the sentences go into effect (helps, in that some dwarves get chained, but apparently some of them violated the export ban so badly that they're slated for execution)

Stuff I haven't tried:
-Deconstructing the trade depot to reclaim my items (might be too late if they've already packe up some of the forbidden items?)
-Murdering the elves so they can't leave the map
-Temporarily disbanding my entire military
-Messing with the "Beat/Execute Criminal" job via the manager or similar

Will any of those things help?

Thanks!
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Mushroo

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Re: How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2013, 02:04:01 pm »

Try killing the elves and taking your stuff back.
Actually, you should just kill the elves anyway. ;)
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A_S00

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Re: How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2013, 02:04:51 pm »

I need them to bring me more bears.  But I can probably murder one caravan without starting a war, given what a good trading partner I've been so far :P .

I'll try deconstructing first, we'll see if it helps.
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hiroshi42

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Re: How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2013, 02:12:37 pm »

Why is your military doing the beating, this should be the responsibility of the sheriff or captain of the guard and his squad shouldn't it?  If you have either of those positions filled just remove the dwarves from them.  Unless your fort has started a tantrum spiral and you have murders going on you shouldn't need a police force.
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Pie Maker

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Re: How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death
« Reply #4 on: February 26, 2013, 02:19:25 pm »

Disbanding the captain of the guard's squad should be enough. You could also try promoting a dwarf to hammerer and locking him away somewhere (once a hammerer has been appointed, only he/she administers beatings iirc). Also, I think that dwarfs break the export law the moment they drop the banned items in the trade depot, so I don't think that deconstructing it will do much.
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A_S00

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Re: How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death
« Reply #5 on: February 26, 2013, 02:43:04 pm »

Murdering the elves ended up working fine.  Thanks for the advice, all.
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Larix

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Re: How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death
« Reply #6 on: February 26, 2013, 06:38:44 pm »

I've got a save point in which I've traded items away to the elves which were subsequently made subject ot an export ban.  At my save point, the elves have stopped trading, but haven't finished packing up, so they're still hanging out at the depot.

If I don't do anything, I've found (via save-scumming) that, as soon as the elves leave the map, my military goes postal and beats half my dwarves to death for violating an export ban.  I want to know if there's anything I can do to save my dwarves, starting at that save point.

Stuff I've tried:
-Changing mayors so that the export ban is lifted by the time the elves leave the map

That's because that doesn't lift the ban - mayoral mandates are only forced to end if the sitting mayor loses the election (17 hematite usually, during the time the elves are packing up). If a mayor is replaced via the administration screen, their mandates persist. You can still view them by checking the personal status of your ex-mayor.

Quote
-Temporarily disbanding my entire military

As has been mentioned, disbanding the unit of your captain of the guard should be enough. But you cannot appoint a new one, ever again, or the murder-orgy will be the first thing on the schedule. As long you prevent those punishments from getting meted out, your prick of a mayor will suffer constant unhappiness for 'delayed punishment of a (or many) criminal(s)', while all your would be dwarven justice victims will receive happiness for the very same delay. The only option where no innocents (including elves, astonishingly enough) get harmed.

Moral of the story? Hmm... don't appoint a captain of the guard unless you're faced with crimes you actually want punished? Currently, dwarven justice is mainly a tool to murder your productive dwarfs over some dumb mood of the nobles.
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Girlinhat

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Re: How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death
« Reply #7 on: February 26, 2013, 07:09:51 pm »

When has murdering elves ever been the wrong answer?

Walkaboutout

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Re: How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death
« Reply #8 on: February 26, 2013, 07:14:38 pm »

Quote
Moral of the story? Hmm... don't appoint a captain of the guard unless you're faced with crimes you actually want punished? Currently, dwarven justice is mainly a tool to murder your productive dwarfs over some dumb mood of the nobles.

On a bit of a side note, but also relevant to possible future knowledge of these situations, I'm really hoping that the non-lethal combat involved in the next update (I think, and whenever it gets here), will take care of this sort of insanity. I'm sick of my productive dorfs being killed for really meaningless stuff, because they can't survive a simple beating (thanks paper thin skulls).

To reinforce what others have said, the solution other than killing the elves (which, around here, may be the actual RIGHT answer, if there can be a right answer), is to disband the captain of the guard's squad, since that squad is not just a military squad like militia units, but also functions as a police force.
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Girlinhat

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Re: How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death
« Reply #9 on: February 26, 2013, 07:16:41 pm »

Unless it's changed, though, Dwarven Justice has no statute of limitation - once marked for a crime, if you EVER fill the guard's position, they'll instantly hunt down those blokes from 30 years ago and give them a sound beating over that one earring.

Larix

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Re: How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death
« Reply #10 on: February 26, 2013, 08:22:05 pm »

When has murdering elves ever been the wrong answer?

What's 2x2? Oh, time to murder some elves.
Perhaps not wrong, but lazy and unimaginative. Most especially in the current version, where it's practically repercussion-free; you can murder _all_ caravans the elves send, and all they'll do is send you a fruit basket for ridding them of their unwanted dwarf-lovers.
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Girlinhat

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Re: How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death
« Reply #11 on: February 26, 2013, 09:30:38 pm »

No, it's not the most elegant.  But for dealing with the Flash Export Ban, it's quick and effective.

eliphas8

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Re: How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2013, 11:28:44 pm »

The Elves eventually stop sending caravans? Because I've been trying to spark a war against them for about a decade now and so far they just obligingly send me a new completely undefended gift of dead elves and free cloth merchant every year. If anything it seems like their stuff is getting better.
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Girlinhat

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Re: How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death
« Reply #13 on: February 26, 2013, 11:45:06 pm »

It may be, actually.  I know in previous versions, they'd send caravans of goods based on their weight and value.  If they liked your trade they'd send you high-value-low-weight items, and if they disliked you, they'd send low-value-high-weight items.  Thus it became highly encouraged to kill elves to ensure they'd bring you more bears and elephants, and less cloth.

Mortis

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Re: How to keep my military from beating my dwarves to death
« Reply #14 on: February 27, 2013, 02:52:20 am »

I've got the opposite problem- my hammerer won't kill one of the annoying vampire dwarves i'm trying to get rid of, he'll be getting out of jail in a few days, and although it says 51 hammerstrikes, my hammerer just sits in the barracks training.
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