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Author Topic: Are giant desert scorpions the most powerful creature in the game?  (Read 3669 times)

Mesa

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Guaranteedly lethal syndrome injection - check
Ability to use weapons - check
No pain etc. feeling - check

I mean, seriously, the only creature they might have trouble dealing with are bronze colossi and (and probably also most HFS creatures) other non-living.
But even with that they can deal with, because weapons.

The only things that can't be (normally) done with them:
- being invaded (formally, that is)
- playing as them
- flying
- training and breeding

All of which can be easily modded.
So? GDS imba?
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Naryar

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Re: Are giant desert scorpions the most powerful creature in the game?
« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 08:25:53 am »

GDS are badass kings of the desert, no doubt about that.

But they get owned by dragons, GCS, giant sponges, armored dwarves, bronze colossuses, anything and everything with a web attack, or most inorganic monsters.

I didn't even find them difficult in adventure mode back then in 0.31. Just cut off the stinger, then both pincers. Then they become a big friendly training dummy.

Mesa

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Re: Are giant desert scorpions the most powerful creature in the game?
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2013, 09:03:31 am »

GDS are badass kings of the desert, no doubt about that.

But they get owned by dragons, GCS, giant sponges, armored dwarves, bronze colossuses, anything and everything with a web attack, or most inorganic monsters.

I didn't even find them difficult in adventure mode back then in 0.31. Just cut off the stinger, then both pincers. Then they become a big friendly training dummy.

But if they fight a living creature and manage to sting it, they pretty much win, be it a rabbit, dwarf or a dragon.
That said, IF they manage to sting it.

They're kinda the long-term glass-cannons - can't soak up a whole lot of damage, but can kill every organic creature if they can pull a successful sting off (and if I read correctly they can rip one's armor off via wrestling, or am I wrong?)
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Are giant desert scorpions the most powerful creature in the game?
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2013, 09:50:47 am »

Does not have [CAN_LEARN]. Gets left behind in the skills race.

Catsup

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Re: Are giant desert scorpions the most powerful creature in the game?
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2013, 10:47:25 am »

no they arent, the syndrome does nothing to help in short-term combat and is only a major problem to actual players. I find giant cave spiders, giant gila monsters, and giant bark scorpions to be more useful war animals since their venoms cause immediate short-term pain, which is more useful in combat against biological enemies since it makes them give into pain.

A giant desert scorpion with its pincers removed is a good torture device for goblins though. And i can see the use against fleshy forgotten beasts if you dont have a military and are willing to wait for the beast to rot to death (what a waste of meat...).

Mesa

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Re: Are giant desert scorpions the most powerful creature in the game?
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2013, 11:11:15 am »

no they arent, the syndrome does nothing to help in short-term combat and is only a major problem to actual players. I find giant cave spiders, giant gila monsters, and giant bark scorpions to be more useful war animals since their venoms cause immediate short-term pain, which is more useful in combat against biological enemies since it makes them give into pain.

A giant desert scorpion with its pincers removed is a good torture device for goblins though. And i can see the use against fleshy forgotten beasts if you dont have a military and are willing to wait for the beast to rot to death (what a waste of meat...).

So they're deadly long-term only, whereas other syndrome-injecting animals have better short-term effects, eh?

That said, they're still not to be underestimated.
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fractalman

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Re: Are giant desert scorpions the most powerful creature in the game?
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2013, 01:29:20 pm »

Do they have trap-avoid?
otherwise...I point you towards the (undead) poisonous snake that singleheadedly (heh heh) drove my entire military force insane when I was playing on a huanted glacier after bypassing the cage traps.  If it hadn't been for that snake...
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weenog

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Re: Are giant desert scorpions the most powerful creature in the game?
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2013, 04:15:31 pm »

If it has stats, we can kill it.  If it can exist, we can build it.  If it's in the way, we can move or destroy it.  The player is the most powerful force in the game, but has no real presence there.  Dwarfs are the most numerous implements of the will of the players, by a large margin.  Seems to me that makes dwarfs the most powerful creatures in the game.
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Dwarven War Boar

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Re: Are giant desert scorpions the most powerful creature in the game?
« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2013, 11:50:40 am »

Something of a cop out wouldn't you say? When someone wants to find out what the most powerful creature is they're normally looking for race average A vs. race average B, not race average A vs. entire squad of adamantine fetishising dwarves.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Are giant desert scorpions the most powerful creature in the game?
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2013, 11:58:39 am »

So they're deadly long-term only, whereas other syndrome-injecting animals have better short-term effects, eh?

That said, they're still not to be underestimated.
I'd say deadly neurotoxin is really effective short term. Doesn't beat webbing though.

Something of a cop out wouldn't you say? When someone wants to find out what the most powerful creature is they're normally looking for race average A vs. race average B, not race average A vs. entire squad of adamantine fetishising dwarves.
Race averages vs one Dwarf = martial trance Dwarf.

Greiger

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Re: Are giant desert scorpions the most powerful creature in the game?
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2013, 12:14:00 pm »

Most powerful creature is a fluffy wambler, remember what they can do to bronze colossi. :P

Sillyness aside a GDS is a powerful opponent, but I'm still going to have to say the GCS still has a leg up.  As others said, the GDS's venom is not really immediate enough.  Deadly, yes, but not quick enough to assist in a here and now fight.  And even then it has to hit a fully combat capable opponent to pull it off.

While a Spider will web your ass into immobility from across the arena, and then bite and paralyze your ass with venom(While your combat capability is reduced by webbing), and the venom alone has a good chance (admittedly not 100%) to be lethal by itself as well.  Full body paralysis is pretty lethal to anything that needs their lung muscles to breathe.  And then it starts chewing on your head if yer not dead yet.
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Are giant desert scorpions the most powerful creature in the game?
« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2013, 12:49:13 pm »

NPC GCS are a bit daft, but when controlled by adventurers, even without skills they are deadly.

A GDS would have to overcome the enemies' skill with its sheer size and keep charging until it gets one lucky sting in. Falter for one moment and it is dead.
A GCS would have to web the enemy and bite its eyes. While the enemy is webbed its skills count for nearly nothing.
Enjoy your nightmare fuel brought to you by DF.

coldmonkey

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Re: Are giant desert scorpions the most powerful creature in the game?
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2013, 06:30:12 am »

If they sting, they kill the victim. But their lethality doesn't affect their survival rate. They're suicide-bugs.
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hiroshi42

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Re: Are giant desert scorpions the most powerful creature in the game?
« Reply #13 on: April 05, 2013, 06:52:02 am »

Is it wrong for me to have a sudden desire to add the relevant civ tags and graspers to the GCS and roam around striking fear into the hearts of pretty much everyone.
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Mesa

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Re: Are giant desert scorpions the most powerful creature in the game?
« Reply #14 on: April 05, 2013, 07:02:21 am »

Is it wrong for me to have a sudden desire to add the relevant civ tags and graspers to the GCS and roam around striking fear into the hearts of pretty much everyone.

Not at all.
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