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Author Topic: National LCS Revisited (4.07.4 Beta Release!)  (Read 77132 times)

Capital Fish

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Re: National LCS Revisited
« Reply #60 on: April 30, 2013, 12:08:48 pm »

There is no long a commercial district, which confused the hell out of me for a while, and I think it should be a sub-location again, so you don't have to look for the Pawn and Gun everytime you want pawn something or buy guns, and it threw off my usual routine for getting to the safehouses to get mutants. Besides that Im not experiencing any glitches.

In older versions of the game (pre-2009), there was no Commercial District either. The Pawn Shop was located in the Industrial District, the Oubliette was in the University District, and the Dept. Store was Downtown. I know I'm likely in an extreme minority here, but I always found it made a bit more sense that way.

Like I said, though, I'm likely in the minority when it comes to that opinion.
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usr_share

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Re: National LCS Revisited
« Reply #61 on: April 30, 2013, 12:55:58 pm »

Gonna give my own 2 on the National LCS changes.

For one thing, I like the idea of the Liberal Crime Squad being able to move around the country. After all, the Symbionese Liberation Army (the primary inspiration for the game) didn't stay in San Francisco forever, too.

Probably that will overcomplicate the game, but I think the gameplay should be influenced by how conservative or liberal each and every state is. If the LCS performs their activities in Washington (which, from what I've heard, is quite a liberal state), then the law enforcement and the general public would probably be more friendly than if they did the same thing in, say, Texas. As in, mobs wouldn't attack so frequently, more liberals will be seen on the streets, the juries would be (slightly) more liberal, and so on. The CCS would probably start from a conservative state. Of course, their actions would attract less attention in a liberal state, too.

This would also make way for city/state-specific "side quests", probably in form of unique locations or secondary squads promoting their own views. For example, a radical fundamentalist squad (think WBC) with a safehouse in Kansas (messing with Gay and Civil Rights, as well as the LCS itself).
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Cheedows

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Re: National LCS Revisited
« Reply #62 on: April 30, 2013, 04:10:36 pm »

There should be an option to use the back of your knife to knock someone out instead of killing them.  This way kidnapping does not require you  to mortally wound them.
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Capital Fish

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Re: National LCS Revisited
« Reply #63 on: April 30, 2013, 06:11:24 pm »

Ever since the original National LCS thread in 2009, I've had a number of ideas regarding how a National LCS would play out.

Unfortunately, I've been away from my main computer for the past week, so I haven't had the time to contribute those ideas to this thread.

I'm back now, though, so let's have it!

Regional Politics:

It may make sense to split the nation into regions. While states would likely still need to be modeled for the certain elections, general political trends could be fairly accurately modeled using regions. Hopefully, this would be easier than  programming the individual politics of each state. Examples of regions could include:

Pacific Northwest:

Comprised of Oregon and Washington State, the Pacific Northwest would likely be the most Liberal region in America. Policies would likely be m or L across the board.

The South: (Bible Belt)

The most Arch-Conservative (and possibly largest) region in LCS's America, the South would include
Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, North and South Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, and potentially Missouri. Politics would be C+ across the board.

The Midwest: (Grain Belt)

Another Conservative region (though not as bad as The South), the midwest would include Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, and Iowa. Politics would be C (or m, in certain cases) across the board.

Great Lakes Region: (Rust Belt)

Comprised of Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, and possibly Ohio, this region would have a mix of Conservative and Liberal policies. A history of union labor would likely result in Labor Laws being L, while Pollution laws would be C or C+.

New England:

New England would be comprised of Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Vermont, Connecticut, and Rhode Island. With a mix of Conservative and Liberal policies, New England would be overall Moderate. Given that five of the states above have legalized Same-Sex Marrige, we can assume New England's Gay Rights policies would be L if not L+.

Mid-Atlantic Region: (Rust Belt...again)

Consisting of New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, and Pennsylvania, this is another region that would have a high level of mixed policies. Labor Laws would likely be L for the same reasons as the Great Lakes Region, while the number of rich people residing in New York and New Jersey would rally support for a C Tax Structure.

Border States. (Sun Belt)

Consisting of New Mexico and Arizona, The Border States Region would likely have a mix of policies. If we use Arizona's SB1070 as an example, however, we could safely peg this region's Immigration policies as C+. People such a Sheriff Joe Arpaio also hint at C+ Prison Regulation as well.


You'll notice some glaring omissions from the examples above. Prominent states such as Texas and California have not been grouped in the following regions. Though they could be respectively grouped in the South and the Pacific Northwest, they've got some features that may make the unique enough to be their own regions.

I was also going to include a "Mountain States" region, but the differing politics among some of these states (Utah and Colorado appear to be polar opposites) caused me to think better of it for now.

Also, I have no idea what to do with Nevada.  :-\

Any feedback would be both helpful and welcomed!
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Cheedows

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Re: National LCS Revisited
« Reply #64 on: April 30, 2013, 06:57:57 pm »

Well, since in National LCS we are having different cities applying certain political values to them isn't far fetched.  Would this mean the CCS HQ (if they have one) would be based in the south then?  Although this does give many possibilities
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seth--

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Re: National LCS Revisited
« Reply #65 on: April 30, 2013, 07:23:18 pm »

Probably that will overcomplicate the game, but I think the gameplay should be influenced by how conservative or liberal each and every state is. If the LCS performs their activities in Washington (which, from what I've heard, is quite a liberal state), then the law enforcement and the general public would probably be more friendly than if they did the same thing in, say, Texas. As in, mobs wouldn't attack so frequently, more liberals will be seen on the streets, the juries would be (slightly) more liberal, and so on. The CCS would probably start from a conservative state. Of course, their actions would attract less attention in a liberal state, too.
That should affect the starting public opinion in each city, I don't see why people should be more conservative in texas if the squad made them all liberal.
This way should be easier to code, too.

There should be an option to use the back of your knife to knock someone out instead of killing them.  This way kidnapping does not require you  to mortally wound them.
Maybe it would need a baseball bat or a hammer instead of a knife.


Ever since the original National LCS thread in 2009, I've had a number of ideas regarding how a National LCS would play out.

Unfortunately, I've been away from my main computer for the past week, so I haven't had the time to contribute those ideas to this thread.

I'm back now, though, so let's have it!

Regional Politics:

It may make sense to split the nation into regions. While states would likely still need to be modeled for the certain elections, general political trends could be fairly accurately modeled using regions. Hopefully, this would be easier than  programming the individual politics of each state. Examples of regions could include:

Pacific Northwest:

Comprised of Oregon and Washington State, the Pacific Northwest would likely be the most Liberal region in America. Policies would likely be m or L across the board.

The South: (Bible Belt)

The most Arch-Conservative (and possibly largest) region in LCS's America, the South would include
Florida, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, North and South Carolina, Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, Arkansas, and potentially Missouri. Politics would be C+ across the board.

The Midwest: (Grain Belt)

Another Conservative region (though not as bad as The South), the midwest would include Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, and Iowa. Politics would be C (or m, in certain cases) across the board.

Great Lakes Region: (Rust Belt)

Comprised of Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, and possibly Ohio, this region would have a mix of Conservative and Liberal policies. A history of union labor would likely result in Labor Laws being L, while Pollution laws would be C or C+.

New England:

New England would be comprised of Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Vermont, Connecticut, and Rhode Island. With a mix of Conservative and Liberal policies, New England would be overall Moderate. Given that five of the states above have legalized Same-Sex Marrige, we can assume New England's Gay Rights policies would be L if not L+.

Mid-Atlantic Region: (Rust Belt...again)

Consisting of New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, and Pennsylvania, this is another region that would have a high level of mixed policies. Labor Laws would likely be L for the same reasons as the Great Lakes Region, while the number of rich people residing in New York and New Jersey would rally support for a C Tax Structure.

Border States. (Sun Belt)

Consisting of New Mexico and Arizona, The Border States Region would likely have a mix of policies. If we use Arizona's SB1070 as an example, however, we could safely peg this region's Immigration policies as C+. People such a Sheriff Joe Arpaio also hint at C+ Prison Regulation as well.


You'll notice some glaring omissions from the examples above. Prominent states such as Texas and California have not been grouped in the following regions. Though they could be respectively grouped in the South and the Pacific Northwest, they've got some features that may make the unique enough to be their own regions.

I was also going to include a "Mountain States" region, but the differing politics among some of these states (Utah and Colorado appear to be polar opposites) caused me to think better of it for now.

Also, I have no idea what to do with Nevada.  :-\

Any feedback would be both helpful and welcomed!
Remember that people from outsie the USA don't know that much about the internal politics. If this gets into the game, it has to be in a way which doesn't confuse international players.
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Capital Fish

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Re: National LCS Revisited
« Reply #66 on: April 30, 2013, 08:04:21 pm »

Remember that people from outsie the USA don't know that much about the internal politics. If this gets into the game, it has to be in a way which doesn't confuse international players.

I'm assuming it'll be possible to rig up a screen similar to - or perhaps even part of - the Liberal Agenda screen we currently have. This'll show people where various places stand on the issues.

Also, the regional stuff can run "under the hood" so to speak. I mainly suggested it as a means of making the nation more politically varied without the hassle of having to program where each individual state sits on each individual issue.
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Cheedows

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Re: National LCS Revisited
« Reply #67 on: April 30, 2013, 10:07:29 pm »

I'm not from America, but politics are universal.  Although I do understand some of the political affiliations/stereotypes (ie. the south being arch-conservative)
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mainiac

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Re: National LCS Revisited
« Reply #68 on: April 30, 2013, 10:29:12 pm »

Mid-Atlantic Region: (Rust Belt...again)

Consisting of New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, and Pennsylvania, this is another region that would have a high level of mixed policies. Labor Laws would likely be L for the same reasons as the Great Lakes Region, while the number of rich people residing in New York and New Jersey would rally support for a C Tax Structure.

New Jersey is one of only two states (along with California) to have a 500k tax bracket on the state income tax and New York is the only one with the millionaire tax bracket.  Arguably they represent the left wing when it comes to taxation.

The Mid-Atlantic region as you defined it would not be not mixed.  Maryland, Delaware and NY are all liberal hotbeds.  Pennsylvania stands out as the "conservative" of the group but still has a noticeable democratic lean.

Sometimes when people talk about the mid Atlantic they mean Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia, Virginia and North Carolina.  That you could call mixed because West Virginia is very conservative and Virginia and North Carolina both lean conservative.  Those would balance out the liberal PA and L+ Maryland/Delaware.

And describing the region as rust belt again really doesn't ring true.  The economy of this region has really changed since the rust belt days.  The only major "industrial" state in the region would be Delaware and that's on high end chemical manufacturing, not old style industry.  Pittsburg was the rust belt hold out but they got over that like 20-30 years ago.

I'm from the mid atlantic if you can't guess.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 10:35:28 pm by mainiac »
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Capital Fish

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Re: National LCS Revisited
« Reply #69 on: April 30, 2013, 10:43:47 pm »

Mid-Atlantic Region: (Rust Belt...again)

Consisting of New York, New Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, and Pennsylvania, this is another region that would have a high level of mixed policies. Labor Laws would likely be L for the same reasons as the Great Lakes Region, while the number of rich people residing in New York and New Jersey would rally support for a C Tax Structure.

New Jersey is one of only two states (along with California) to have a 500k tax bracket on the state income tax and New York is the only one with the millionaire tax bracket.  Arguably they represent the left wing when it comes to taxation.

The Mid-Atlantic region as you defined it would not be not mixed.  Maryland, Delaware and NY are all liberal hotbeds.  Pennsylvania stands out as the "conservative" of the group but still has a noticeable democratic lean.

Sometimes when people talk about the mid Atlantic they mean Pennsylvania, Maryland, Delaware, West Virginia, Virginia and North Carolina.  That you could call mixed because West Virginia is very conservative and Virginia and North Carolina both lean conservative.  Those would balance out the liberal PA and L+ Maryland/Delaware.

And describing the region as rust belt again really doesn't ring true.  The economy of this region has really changed since the rust belt days.  The only major "industrial" state in the region would be Delaware and that's on high end chemical manufacturing, not old style industry.  Pittsburg was the rust belt hold out but they got over that like 20-30 years ago.

I'm from the mid atlantic if you can't guess.

My mistake(s). Though when it came to labeling the region as a rust belt, I was thinking along the lines of certain manufacturing cities in upstate New York, along with places like Allentown and the aforementioned Pittsburgh. As you've said though, that characterization may be a little out of date.  :P

EDIT: Looking back, I probably just grouped those states together because they were in the same general area. I had done the same thing regarding the Rocky Mountain states, but I deleted that region before posting because I found that proximity was really the only thing they had in common.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 10:52:37 pm by Capital Fish »
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mainiac

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Re: National LCS Revisited
« Reply #70 on: April 30, 2013, 11:21:59 pm »

I think something like this might be a better division:



Some of the choices aren't ideal (lumping liberal NM in with the Sun Belt or Conservative WV with the mid atlantic) but these regions feel a bit more logical to me.  Plus they would sort of make sense to be linked to issues.  Maybe every 5 years the issues that matter for a region are at an extreme, the ideology of the region would change in the direction of those issues.

Sun Belt (Red): This region starts out C+ but is heavily influenced by immigration law, i.e. liberal immigration laws will this region to drift left.  This represents the electoral impact of immigration on this region more so then the rest of the country.

Great Plains/Rockies (Pink): This region starts out conservative but is influenced by pollution laws, nuclear power, animal rights and whatever law controls genetic experiments.  This is to represent whether the region builds up vested interests around coal and factory farming or more green stuff like wind farms and sustainable farming

Left Coast (Green): Starts out L+ but can be turned conservative by Privacy Rights, Free Speech, Civil Rights and Womens Rights.  Will the liberal or libertarian brand shine through in this region?

Midwest (Purple): Starts out M, can be influenced by labor and pollution laws.  The industrial and labor history of the region makes this one obvious.

Mid Atlantic (Blue): Starts out L, is influenced by Corporate Law, Election Reform, Drug Law, Human Rights (IIRC that covers racism).  This region has a lot of white color corporate service industry, is the center of the government and has a lot of history with race relations.

Then there are the holdout regions.  On the left we have New England (White), this region is L+ and has no special issue that makes it conservative.  Opposite that is the Deep South (Orange).  It starts out C+ and it's going to be the last holdout on the liberal drift, having no issue that makes it drift.  But both the holdouts can be influenced the old fashioned way, if public opinion is very liberal or very conservative on all the issues, it will overwhelm the natural tendencies of these regions (and all other regions).

Left over are Hawaii and Alaska, the two overseas territories.  The former is L+ while the latter is C+.  I feel like they should be the holdouts.  No matter how liberal or conservative the country gets, these two regions would keep their ideologies.  So if you need to be somewhere with lots of liberals or conservatives, you can go to these places.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2013, 11:27:25 pm by mainiac »
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Capital Fish

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Re: National LCS Revisited
« Reply #71 on: May 01, 2013, 08:54:02 am »

I think something like this might be a better division:



Some of the choices aren't ideal (lumping liberal NM in with the Sun Belt or Conservative WV with the mid atlantic) but these regions feel a bit more logical to me.  Plus they would sort of make sense to be linked to issues.  Maybe every 5 years the issues that matter for a region are at an extreme, the ideology of the region would change in the direction of those issues.

Sun Belt (Red): This region starts out C+ but is heavily influenced by immigration law, i.e. liberal immigration laws will this region to drift left.  This represents the electoral impact of immigration on this region more so then the rest of the country.

Great Plains/Rockies (Pink): This region starts out conservative but is influenced by pollution laws, nuclear power, animal rights and whatever law controls genetic experiments.  This is to represent whether the region builds up vested interests around coal and factory farming or more green stuff like wind farms and sustainable farming

Left Coast (Green): Starts out L+ but can be turned conservative by Privacy Rights, Free Speech, Civil Rights and Womens Rights.  Will the liberal or libertarian brand shine through in this region?

Midwest (Purple): Starts out M, can be influenced by labor and pollution laws.  The industrial and labor history of the region makes this one obvious.

Mid Atlantic (Blue): Starts out L, is influenced by Corporate Law, Election Reform, Drug Law, Human Rights (IIRC that covers racism).  This region has a lot of white color corporate service industry, is the center of the government and has a lot of history with race relations.

Then there are the holdout regions.  On the left we have New England (White), this region is L+ and has no special issue that makes it conservative.  Opposite that is the Deep South (Orange).  It starts out C+ and it's going to be the last holdout on the liberal drift, having no issue that makes it drift.  But both the holdouts can be influenced the old fashioned way, if public opinion is very liberal or very conservative on all the issues, it will overwhelm the natural tendencies of these regions (and all other regions).

Left over are Hawaii and Alaska, the two overseas territories.  The former is L+ while the latter is C+.  I feel like they should be the holdouts.  No matter how liberal or conservative the country gets, these two regions would keep their ideologies.  So if you need to be somewhere with lots of liberals or conservatives, you can go to these places.

Looks great!

EDIT: Wish I had something else to add to that.  :P Seriously, though, awesome job!
« Last Edit: May 01, 2013, 09:26:24 am by Capital Fish »
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Man of Paper

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Re: National LCS Revisited
« Reply #72 on: May 01, 2013, 09:11:45 am »

Eventually what about the possibility of support from foreign interests?

To me, this'd make sense. Once you're working on a national scale, people in other countries will take notice. Perhaps it could be as simple as an extra job option, but where the person would disappear from the roster to represent their travel to another country. Cash'd be excellent of course, but it'd be sweet to also get in with seedier international elements, like drug cartels and gun smugglers. Though obviously they'd definitely be riskier the higher on the scale of criminality you get.
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Re: National LCS Revisited
« Reply #73 on: May 01, 2013, 07:57:13 pm »

Well, was just playing 4.07.1 and this happened. Looks to me that the CCS has found me and started their sabotage campaign!
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SealyStar

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Re: National LCS Revisited
« Reply #74 on: May 01, 2013, 08:38:39 pm »

Well, was just playing 4.07.1 and this happened. Looks to me that the CCS has found me and started their sabotage campaign!

Holy shit.

That's the weirdest bug I've ever...
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