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Author Topic: 90% of fortress-born dwarves & animals are 1/10th normal size (fixed in LNP)  (Read 79334 times)

BoredVirulence

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Re: The unluckiest hammerdwarf?
« Reply #15 on: May 29, 2013, 01:17:06 pm »

Spatial or kinesthetic sense low?
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Mr S

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Re: The unluckiest hammerdwarf?
« Reply #16 on: May 29, 2013, 01:20:28 pm »

Lost an eye in a childhood injury?  Heavily scarred bashing arm?  Asthma?
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VerdantSF

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Re: The unluckiest hammerdwarf?
« Reply #17 on: May 29, 2013, 01:22:33 pm »

I find the differences in the compared combat logs are mainly due to luck - the weaker hammerdwarf was tackling a kobold fighter who was actually fighting back, while the stronger one was merely bashing up a prone and disabled kobold civilian. The stronger one got _one_ meaningful hit - the spine-smasher - which didn't cause the kobold to lose hold of equipment or fall down (i.e., the kobold was already disarmed and on the ground).

The thing is, the weaker hammerdwarf has consistently had this "bad luck" for every battle.  Here's some more !Science! featuring three of the hammer legendaries vs. elves, all in the same weak armor.

4131 STR: 9 weapon strikes with an artifact pig bone shield, 9 serious wounds (100%)
3738 STR: 13 hits with a named steel war hammer, 4 bruises & bone chips, 9 serious wounds (69%)
2346 STR: 23 hits with a masterful steel war hammer, 23 bruises, 0 serious wounds.  ZERO :(.  The only serious wounds he managed were from unarmed strikes.

The above fight is exactly what I've been observing over the course of the unlucky dwarf's entire military career.  The stronger hammerdwarves and the macedwarf always have shorter combat logs and their kill counts absolutely dwarf (heh) his.

Here's a look at them in Splinterz Therapist.  I also noticed that Urist McWhifflehammer is already at his maximum strength.  Screw pump training did nothing :(.
 
Their body sizes are the same, as are the weapon skills.  Strength affects weapon velocity, and it looks like it makes a significant difference for blunt weapons.  In related news, I've got a 12 year old recruit who is set to become the second strongest dwarf in the fort with 4152 max strength (the strongest is 4248)!  I can't decide between hammers or maces for him.  Hammers clearly benefit from more strength, while maces are just fine for someone with under 2400.  I wonder if a 4152 STR mace wielder will absolutely wreck things, or if there's a cap/diminishing returns. 

Why don't you post the unlucky hammerdwarf's personal description?  I wonder if there's something in his personality or physical characteristics that's a problem.  Muscles can be trained, but some dwarves are simply very tiny or short and can never attain the size of the bigger guys.  I believe that puts a hard upper bound on their abilities.  It could also be a personality thing, like he's too easily stressed out.

Edem II's Bio

He's "easily moved to pity."  His title is "The Peace of Workers."  Maybe he's a bit of a pacifist and prefers to go easy on his foes ;).

Lost an eye in a childhood injury?  Heavily scarred bashing arm?  Asthma?

He had all his limbs broken in battle when he was 14.  He healed up completely, though.  It doesn't look like he had any last effects, but maybe you're on to something.  I'll recruit another hammerdwarf with similar max strength and keep track.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 01:56:33 pm by VerdantSF »
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Deepblade

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Re: The unluckiest hammerdwarf?
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2013, 03:26:12 pm »

Did he ever encounter a mummy in his life time? I know in adventure mode a mummy can curse you to have bad rolls, though it's not constant I thought.
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Deepblade's Standardized Creature Parts, for when you're pissed about all the different types of animal products there are.

VerdantSF

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Re: The unluckiest hammerdwarf?
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2013, 04:13:09 pm »

Nope, no mummies.

Urist McDwarfFortress

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Re: The unluckiest hammerdwarf?
« Reply #20 on: May 29, 2013, 04:22:42 pm »

Nope, no mummies.
If he is a migrant, is it possible he could have encountered one prior to arriving at your fort? Does that even happen to non-adventurers? How would you be able to tell? Does it show up in legends?
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Sorry, for a moment there I forgot we were all psychopaths.
Someone who has random urges to make mog juice isn't exactly going to care about the cost effectiveness of obtaining it.

Deepblade

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Re: The unluckiest hammerdwarf?
« Reply #21 on: May 29, 2013, 04:29:59 pm »

Nope, no mummies.
If he is a migrant, is it possible he could have encountered one prior to arriving at your fort? Does that even happen to non-adventurers? How would you be able to tell? Does it show up in legends?

It should show up in legends mode, if he wasn't born in the fort. If that's the case then you gotta make a copy of your world to the desktop and abandon your fort in order to be able to access legends mode. After you search the legends for the guy just delete the world and move the copy back.

The only other thing to do is to give him a nice ☼steel mace☼, train him up in that, and see how he fares.
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VerdantSF

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Re: The unluckiest hammerdwarf?
« Reply #22 on: May 29, 2013, 04:38:17 pm »

Nope, no mummies.
If he is a migrant, is it possible he could have encountered one prior to arriving at your fort? Does that even happen to non-adventurers? How would you be able to tell? Does it show up in legends?

He was born in the fort.

The only other thing to do is to give him a nice ☼steel mace☼, train him up in that, and see how he fares.

Good idea.  He's only 27, so he's got time to learn!
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 04:43:57 pm by VerdantSF »
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Larix

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Re: The unluckiest hammerdwarf?
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2013, 04:45:51 pm »

Nope, no mummies.
If he is a migrant, is it possible he could have encountered one prior to arriving at your fort? Does that even happen to non-adventurers? How would you be able to tell? Does it show up in legends?

Looking at the history, it looks like he was born in the fort. There's no 'arrived at xxx on the yyth of zz in the year nnn' and his only group memberships are the fort and civ.
I'm not sure mummies can actually curse non-adventurers, and the effects should be totally different anyway - mummy curses are supposed to give a fixed _chance_ of a massively bad failure at whatever a character is trying to do. Whenever the chance fails, the character ought to perform normally, but when it hits, things go really badly, i.e. the life expectancy of a cursed character in battle is pretty short.

This batch of combat logs is _very_ convincing, i must say - the low-strength hammerdwarf actually scored a headshot and several body hits with a masterwork steel warhammer which caused nothing beyond superficial bruising and no inner organ damage. He's very definitely not getting proper warhammer effects. I agree, giving him another weapon might be the only way to actually make him useful in battle.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 02:49:36 am by Larix »
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VerdantSF

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Re: The unluckiest hammerdwarf?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2013, 09:48:06 pm »

So I had the weakest hammerdwarf switch weapons with the macedwarf, who he's actually stronger than.  Here's what happened during a goblin siege.

Hammerdwarf, 2346 STR, now armed with a named masterful steel mace: 13 weapon hits, 12 bruises & chips, 1 serious wound (8%)
Macedwarf, 2302 STR, now armed with a masterful steel war hammer:53 weapon hits, 27 bruises & chips vs. 26 serious wounds (49%)

Sheesh.  Something is definitely wrong with Edem II.  I'm really starting to suspect that the sympathy trait might be the culprit.  His "easily moved to pity" is just 1 tier below the max tier of "is incredibly compassionate and feels the pain of others."  He also happens to be the only dwarf who consistently causes Legends Viewer to crash!  Talk about unlucky...
« Last Edit: May 29, 2013, 09:50:36 pm by VerdantSF »
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BoredVirulence

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Re: The unluckiest hammerdwarf?
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2013, 10:36:55 pm »

I'm really starting to suspect that the sympathy trait might be the culprit. 
Modify it with dfhack and see if there is a difference. Should be easy to modify one of Vjek's scripts to suit your needs.
http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/User:Vjek

I would modify his brainwash script to only change 1 value at a time. Then you can see if any of them made a difference. This is, after all, more about !!science!! than making your fort better, so any reservations against hacking should be quelled, you know, in the name of science.

Edit: Or post the save. I myself am curious and wouldn't mind poking around.
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VerdantSF

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Re: The unluckiest hammerdwarf?
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2013, 11:45:16 pm »

SharkForce

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Re: The unluckiest hammerdwarf?
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2013, 01:32:09 am »

on a side note, maybe he should retire and become a doctor :P
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Deepblade

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Re: The unluckiest hammerdwarf?
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2013, 01:48:48 am »

If you can use the script in the arena to duplicate their stats it might be easier !!science!! wise and give a more controlled environment.
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BoredVirulence

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Re: The unluckiest hammerdwarf?
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2013, 11:11:43 am »

If you can use the script in the arena to duplicate their stats it might be easier !!science!! wise and give a more controlled environment.
Yeah, I'm going to be sure to record his stats in case something happens. And I'd like to try replicating him in the arena and seeing if I get the same issues. If not, then there must be something I missed or something about his history I couldn't replicate.

Any mods I should be aware of?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2013, 11:18:50 am by BoredVirulence »
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