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[Meph]

Just a question from a modders perspective: Are you writing this new Twbt version based on your old raws, on phoebus raws (like you did when you started your own set), or on ascii raws?

I ask because its not necessary for you to change raw numbers anymore, if you can use Twbt instead. You might as well use Ascii or Phoebus raws and keep all the tile numbers.

[Obsidian Soul]

Yes, I plan it to be completely standalone this time. Though I will still carry over my own changes like moving grass and stuff (which, if I may clarify, can also be freely copied by anyone for their own sets if interested).  I may still have to modify raws for plants extensively though. I like my greenery to be less patchwork and more natural looking.

[Max™]

I CANNOT CONTAIN MY EXCITEMENT.

I figured I would share the source of that gif because it is so much funnier when you can hear the wings slapping the cameraman and Stephen Fry chortling about it all, and to post and say I'm excited to see how this turns out, Obsidian, more large tile and graphics sets is a desperately needed thing as is... well drawn ones is a bonus!

[DragonDePlatino]

Fun fact: I originally learned about kakapos from DF! In fact, I'd bet a lot of people did, since I never heard of the bird before seeing them in DF.

Anyways, before we get too off subject...

Obsidian Soul, please tell me you have a good system in place for creating your profession graphics. I just finished creating the race graphics for my graphics set, and the total came out to 990 sprites for all possible race/profession combinations. I was nearly going insane by the time I had finished, and even then the art style was simpler and the resolution was lower than your graphics set. So what I'm saying is...

What's your game plan for tackling the profession graphics? Are you going be using templates? Will each profession have it's own tool, or will you just be recoloring sprites? Will you be doing all possible combinations or throwing out the really unlikely ones (i.e. No cheesemaker kobolds). Throwing out the latter will save you a lot of time, but if a mod expands a race to use more vanilla professions, that'd be a problem.

[Obsidian Soul]

ROFL. Stephen Fry. <3

And yes I use templates sorta. I make the base "peasant" class first, then work with those. Most of it is just superimposing armor, weapons, tools, and shields (all of which I create on a separate layer and then mix and match), and adjusting the colors to vary a little bit. Same technique I used for the old sheet.



As you can tell, I place more importance on consistency between profession types (and consistency is one of the main reasons I decided to create the first Obsidian set in the first place), rather than just the ease of telling professions apart (though I try to factor that in as well, dunno if I succeeded).

Creating the sheets for the sentient races is actually the easy part, IMO. And yes, I'll be making all of standard professions if I can. The part I dread is creating the sheets for animals, monsters, and animal men. But the same practice applies to an extent. I reuse parts of already finished sprites when applicable, both for consistency and for ease. It will still take a long time though. Wish me luck.

Also, as you may noticed, I am actually not a true pixel artist, LOL, or a true 2d artist at that. I'm a 3d artist by skillset. But since I know my way around GIMP well enough, I make do.

Oh and additionally, IMO, it is actually EASIER to create the sprites when you have a higher target resolution. You can vary the sprites much more easily.

[Boltgun]

Those sprites look amazing and using tbwt will make them awesomer.

[Vattic]

Very nice. PTW.

Oooh. So that's what posterize does. The target isn't actually resized though, but since circle-select isn't hard-edged, it results in fuzzy borders. Colors probably won't matter since the game will change those anyway (and I don't know how to use palettes effectively ). But I'll try to sharpen the borders of everything. Thanks!

Can you not select the tool then turn off antialiasing in the tool options to get a crisp edge? Been a while since I used GIMP.

[Obsidian Soul]

Thanks.

@Vattic, yep, but the result is too jagged. While that's fine for the borders, for rings or circles inside the sprites themselves, I'd rather they still look smooth when it comes to curves. But no matter, it probably won't even be noticeable since almost all of these will have backgrounds added anyway.

Anyway [slow] progress:


row 1
dwarf, elf, human, quiver, ammo1, ammo2, necklace, earrings, swordsdwarf, armor rack (built), thread, shield, helm, woodpile, bars, backpack, cage (stockpile), prepared food, glob (fat, tallow, etc.), bin, tanned skin, crutches, instrument, memorial/slab (built), cabinet, statue (built), bracelet, cloth, traction bench, animal trap, ring
row 2
kobold, goblin, troll, archery target, anvil, quern, flask, barrel, bucket, master wrestler, armor, gloves, boots, pants, block, boulder, well, toy, book, egg, cheese, web, coffin (built), coffin (stockpile), chair, table, meat, chain, bed, crown, figurine
row 3
up arrow, right arrow, down arrow, left arrow, ash, millstone, rough gem, (small) gem, large gem, armor rack (stockpile), (mined) rock, totem, seeds, pigtails, spores, wilted dimple cups, dimple cups, raw fish, (prepared) fish, bag, coin 1, coin 2, vermin, memorial/slab (stockpile), splint, statue (stockpile), cast, mug, goblet, scepter, rope

And some questions, I'm having trouble figuring out what Tile Types (df/tiletype.h) refer to. Is there anywhere where they are explained more in detail? For example what do the following tiles refer to?

FeatureBoulder, TreeCapFloor1, FrozenRamp, GrassDarkFloor1, Grass2StairD, SemiMoltenRock, TreeRootSloping, Waterfall, SoilWetFloor2, StoneWallWorn1

Additionally, water tiles don't seem to be listed, as well as several other things like smoke, sea foam, and levers Am I also correct in assuming that RiverE, RiverN, etc. and BrookE, BrookN, etc. refer to map tiles? Where are the map tiles defined, as well? Can they be overridden or do they still need to be merged with the main tileset? I'm referring to tiles like Moon, Highwood forest, Necromancer's tower, Elven forest retreat, Shrines, Hills, etc.

[HaterSkater]

And some questions, I'm having trouble figuring out what Tile Types (df/tiletype.h) refer to. Is there anywhere where they are explained more in detail? For example what do the following tiles refer to?

FeatureBoulder, TreeCapFloor1, FrozenRamp, GrassDarkFloor1, Grass2StairD, SemiMoltenRock, TreeRootSloping, Waterfall, SoilWetFloor2, StoneWallWorn1

Additionally, water tiles don't seem to be listed, as well as several other things like smoke, sea foam, and levers Am I also correct in assuming that RiverE, RiverN, etc. and BrookE, BrookN, etc. refer to map tiles? Where are the map tiles defined, as well? Can they be overridden or do they still need to be merged with the main tileset? I'm referring to tiles like Moon, Highwood forest, Necromancer's tower, Elven forest retreat, Shrines, Hills, etc.

1. All "Feature" tiles refers to adamantine, afaik
2. Don't know
3. Don't know
4. dark floor is simply a grass tile with dark colour
5. soil stair covered with grass. don't remember what "2" here stands for, maybe it's subtype, like in grass example
6. it's semimolten rock
7. tree root sloping refers to tree tile type, you can set in d_init
8. Don't know
9. second tile for wet soil floor
10. don't know

BTW, with dfhack you can hover mouse over tiles to see their ID in lower right corner. It will help you a lot

There is no way to override world map, and, surprisingly, RiverN and other tiles like this are to be found in rivers on embark. Embark on a river and use this mouse-hover trick on river tiles, so you will see, that their IDs are different

I don't know about foam, levers, etc. but you may solve this again with mouse-hover

[lethosor]

If you're referring to mousequery, that only displays a small subset of tile types. Try "probe" if you want to see information about a specific tile.

[Obsidian Soul]

Interesting... so rivers and brooks actually have provisions that make them more similar to walls and tree tiles too then? This *might* be good news if we can properly designate things like riverbanks and such. And thanks for the mousequery and probe tips. I guess I really will need to set up a DF game to continue.

Bummed about the map tiles though. :[ This could introduce a whole new set of problems and might mean that even with overrides, some tiles in the main tileset will still really not be "free" since they are still needed for the world map.

[mifki]

Bummed about the map tiles though. :[ This could introduce a whole new set of problems and might mean that even with overrides, some tiles in the main tileset will still really not be "free" since they are still needed for the world map.

The thing is... With twbt, map is displayed with text tileset, so no need to keep tiles for world map. People are complaining so I need to finally change this, but even then there's going to be a separate tileset for world map. So don't worry about it anyway.

[Obsidian Soul]

Bummed about the map tiles though. :[ This could introduce a whole new set of problems and might mean that even with overrides, some tiles in the main tileset will still really not be "free" since they are still needed for the world map.

The thing is... With twbt, map is displayed with text tileset, so no need to keep tiles for world map. People are complaining so I need to finally change this, but even then there's going to be a separate tileset for world map. So don't worry about it anyway.

As with most graphics users, I can't make sense of text-only DF, so a text-only world/mini-map would be gibberish for most of us.

But if that's planned to be changed, awesome. A separate sheet for text and a separate one for map tiles would be very ideal. I'll make some graphics for the map tiles beforehand, just in case.

[Obsidian Soul]

My first success I created an override for woodpiles successfully. Though it's still temporary (no transparencies yet, or color adjustments), the higher resolution is already very much evident against the surrounding tiles (Yes it's not much to be ecstatic about LOL, but it's my first try):


However, I can't seem to make the following work. They aren't replaced at all, and simply continue to use the default. Any tips on what I may be doing wrong?

[OVERRIDE:230:I:CROWN:CROWN::3:92]            #CROWN
[OVERRIDE:45:I:SCEPTER:SCEPTER::3:108]         #SCEPTER
[OVERRIDE:398:I:BOULDER:BOULDER::3:32]        #BOULDER

Also does anyone have a savegame of a mature fort?

[HaterSkater]

However, I can't seem to make the following work. They aren't replaced at all, and simply continue to use the default. Any tips on what I may be doing wrong?

[OVERRIDE:230:I:CROWN:CROWN::3:92]            #CROWN
[OVERRIDE:45:I:SCEPTER:SCEPTER::3:108]         #SCEPTER
[OVERRIDE:398:I:BOULDER:BOULDER::3:32]        #BOULDER

Also does anyone have a savegame of a mature fort?

boulder is a tiletype. It's a native boulder found on map, not an item you receive after digging a wall. So you should use 'T' instead of 'I'.
never mind, i was wrong
Plus what it that tile number 398 means? maximum number available is 255
proper map-boulder will be [OVERRIDE:236:T:StoneBoulder:3:32]
proper piece-of-stone will be [OVERRIDE:7:I:BOULDER:BOULDER::3:32]

Don't know what is wrong with sceptre and crown, usually reason of override not working is a typo

Added: wild guess: try to type ":0:", instead of "::" in the "subtype" section

Added2: plus, if you beginning from scratch, you don't need to override crown, since it's the only thing that uses tile 230