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[miauw62]

Dwarf Fortress IS hard. And this game is built entirely around the concept of realism, really. I doubt it would be much fun to have realistic damage systems in, say, TF2. You have to be carefull not to throw gameplay out of the window in favor of realism.

[itisnotlogical]

And there's games that add random "realistic" touches when the entire concept of the game is fairly out there. The Duke in Duke Nukem Forever could only carry two guns at release, and only four with later patches. Why is that even needed in a game that is supposedly about being as crazy and over-the-top as possible?

[Neonivek]

Time for some Genre specific ACTION!

Point and Clicks that Advertise themselves based on how many puzzles and objects they have

Honestly every time I see this in a game's information page a warning light blares in my head. Let me tell you future point and click creators of tomorrow, The quality of a point and click is not in the sheer number of puzzles you put in the game (Unless you are the goblins series). It is the equivalent of advertising how many gun pick ups there are in a shooter.

Ohh well, I am the only one here who cares about this genre.

[darkrider2]

Ok this has been put up here in various forms but I think it just needs to be generlized into one category...

RTS AI's

Ever tried the campaign to Wargame: Airland Battle? Yeah, I did, until I got to scenario two.

Oh, I see you created a large forward army, good thing I know exactly where you are, yeah, I do, I don't need recon or anything. Oh, and btw, I know exactly how far and just where your recon can and can't see, even if there are no visual indicators for it in the UI, lol casuals.

So while you're busy driving steadfast towards the one sector I own, I'll be driving my murderball of units on this road in the middle of nowhere, bypass your armies, and show up in that one sector you own. Oh, I see you left recon and anti-air, and whats that even some anti vehicle defenses around your command truck stationed in that village? Whatever, I'll just send this ATGM unit to that singe patch of land your recon can't see, and snipe your command unit at maximum range, through five bushes and between 8 buildings. (this seriously happened to me)

"You are done AI! For I am the player! and I will simply defend my command vehicle and await your armies!"

lol, no problem bro. Did I mention I know exactly where you are? and just how much force you command? Yeah I ain't going near that thing, I really don't mind plopping my murderball on some random hill and waiting out the game timer. Try to find me? Enjoy losing all your recon units, cause I know where they are, and if they're alone, and I'll murder them all.

"HA! I have defeated you in combat AI. I know your tricks now, there's no---"

Let me stop you there, maybe you did win that battle, but there's about a dozen more ahead of you. Oh and I started this scenario with all the territories except one, sure you've captured a few by now, but my piggy bank is pretty full from the 6 or so turns it took you to get even with me for resource points, and I'm not letting that money go to waste. Enjoy fighting my eight divisions of reinforcements, 3 of which are on the same territory, fighting your one division, its true I really do like playing the same map 3 times in a row.

"I will never surrender AI, I have endured, I will come out victorious..."

Tactical nuke.

"screw this"

(There might be worse AI's, but this is the worst I've personally come across. Compared to crap like this I don't mind AI getting resource bonuses unless its some rediculous boost (see, GalCiv2 upper five intelligences))

[Neonivek]

I remember this one game I played where the AI would steam roll you almost every time because the game is entirely about VERY intricate commands and the AI can give a hundred commands before you give one. Making the game nearly impossible.

Yet I won because I paused the game like CRAZY!

well ok that isn't accurate... the game crashed because I paused so much.

I absolutely cannot imagine winning unless you exploit the game or pause like I did... The AI cheats using the fact that it doesn't have human hands, eyes, ears, or brain. The equivalent of the AI in StarCraft, as an example, having perfect control of every individual unit.

[scrdest]

Dwarf Fortress IS hard. And this game is built entirely around the concept of realism, really. I doubt it would be much fun to have realistic damage systems in, say, TF2. You have to be carefull not to throw gameplay out of the window in favor of realism.

On the other hand, if you made a hypothetical TF3, using the more realistic graphical style of TF1, with slower movement speed, etc. etc., it would work well with realistic damage system.

It's a matter of consistency in gameplay, want realism - make everything aim for realism, you can throw cartoonishness where it adds to gameplay, but not just because, and if you want cartoonishness, you can add some realistic elements if they provide contrast, not just because 'OMG SO UNREALIST' (sic).

[Catastrophic lolcats]

On the other hand, if you made a hypothetical TF3, using the more realistic graphical style of TF1, with slower movement speed, etc. etc., it would work well with realistic damage system.

Team Fortress 2 started off as a Battlefield-like but with a much smaller player allowance, focusing on teamwork and tactics.

[alexandertnt]

On the other hand, if you made a hypothetical TF3, using the more realistic graphical style of TF1, with slower movement speed, etc. etc., it would work well with realistic damage system.

And potentially be fun too, despite being realistic.

[scrdest]

On the other hand, if you made a hypothetical TF3, using the more realistic graphical style of TF1, with slower movement speed, etc. etc., it would work well with realistic damage system.

And potentially be fun too, despite being realistic.

That's what I intended to say, that it would be both fun and realistic. I sank quite a lot of town into True Combat: Elite mod for Enemy Territory, which focused on slower gameplay, and Urban Terror mod for UT3 that, while focusing on 'Hollywood realism', had a quite unusual health system (bodypart damage and bandaging).

[miauw62]

You proved my point, scrdest. Realism shouldn't be shoehorned in because "lelrealism", but it makes fun games if they're designed with realism in mind.

[Mesa]

Ok this has been put up here in various forms but I think it just needs to be generlized into one category...

AI's

FTFY.
It's mostly about strategy AIs. (turn-based or real-time)

Ever played Heroes of Might and Magic VI?
Me neither.

[darkrider2]

The "realism" crowd are always just using it as some excuse to argue towards implementing or defending some game mechanic or game item that suits them. They'll flip on a dime the minute you use the idea of realism against their intended strategy. Expect the words "in reality [X], but this is a game so [Z][Y]"

X: your argument, Z: connecting statement ("game balance requires..."), Y: my argument. (see, wargame: airland battle forums, yeah, I'm still sour over it)

*ahem*

So does anyone know a FPS that doesn't have hitmarkers, or kill indications? I see a lot of "realistic" FPS games, even on their "hardcore" modes still include those two things.

[Krevsin]

Red Orchestra and Red Orchestra 2 and its respective expansion. Get them on steam, get them while they're brutal.

Or at least I think they don't have kill indicators. I only played through the first one a lot, merely played a match or two of the second one. Both were a long time ago, so I don't really remember much aside from it being brutally realistic.

[Virtz]

The "realism" crowd are always just using it as some excuse to argue towards implementing or defending some game mechanic or game item that suits them. They'll flip on a dime the minute you use the idea of realism against their intended strategy. Expect the words "in reality [X], but this is a game so [Z][Y]"

X: your argument, Z: connecting statement ("game balance requires..."), Y: my argument. (see, wargame: airland battle forums, yeah, I'm still sour over it)

That's basically how it goes with nearly every cover shooter ever. "Hey guys, let's have cover mechanics, cause people take cover in reality! But let's not make assault rifles go right through most cover like they would in reality. That'd make most cover useless and fire fights actually exciting.".

So does anyone know a FPS that doesn't have hitmarkers, or kill indications? I see a lot of "realistic" FPS games, even on their "hardcore" modes still include those two things.

Pretty sure Armed Assault 2 didn't have them. Not sure, but probably ArmA 3 as well.

[nenjin]

No hit or kill indicators in RO2. You get a message several seconds after you plug an enemy before it tells you you killed him, how and at what range.

They were going for that baited breath "Did I get him or didn't I?" moment.

RO2 definitely captures the meat grinder reality of war. Being in the meat grinder, however, is debatably fun.