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[thistleknot]

this may not be the correct place for this (since it's in modding), but I don't see a suggestion thread for creating sub categories for other boards.

For example:
DF Discussion, a trap sub thread.  I've seen enough nice traps that almost deserve their own thread, and it would be nice to see them in their own category.

[MagmaMcFry]

this may not be the correct place for this (since it's in modding), but I don't see a suggestion thread for creating sub categories for other boards.

For example:
DF Discussion, a trap sub thread.  I've seen enough nice traps that almost deserve their own thread, and it would be nice to see them in their own category.

I guess those would fit better in the wiki, in the how-to section.

[PeridexisErrant]

Can @fricy and I request a child board for LNP-style starter packs?  There's a lot of them, and currently most get buried in the general discussion forum - because they don't really fit anywhere else.   A board dedicated to them would allow newbies a decent choice, and prevent clutter. 

Thoughts? 

[Hugo_The_Dwarf]

wouldn't the LNPs be counted as Utilities as all they are is just programs that manage the game and third party programs.

[PeridexisErrant]

The LNP GUI would - and should be moved there, if the thread posters ever come back - but the bundle I maintain is more of an aggregate. 

It includes many utilities, tilesets, graphics packs, dfhack, scripts and plugins, the core game, a folder structure, batch files to copy content from an older version, command-line tools to process legends exports, cheat sheets of material values, links to tutorials, and more.  It just seems sufficiently different to the stuff described as mods or utilities that a child board seems warranted, and since starting mine I've become aware of the large number of similar, but obscure or discontinued packs hidden away somewhere in the general discussion forum or DFFD - there's nowhere for those to be collected, and I think there should be. 

[Meph]

I think it would fit fine with the other utilities, I have to agree with hugo there. After all all questions about it will be related to the third-party-programs, as the game itself is still vanilla. People can find the LNP, which collects all utilities in one place, right next to the threads for the utilities they need for more info about them.

[fricy]

@Hugo, Meph
The launcher should be in the utilities section, agreed. But not the starter packs:

IMHO these 3rd party distribution packs need more visibility, their primary aim is that the beginners have a better first experience, so it should be a priority to make it easy for them to find these first, so the player base can expand. And they won't be looking in the utilities section, at least not in the beginning. They'll get the vanilla version from bay12games, try it out an either spend the time learning the game, or just delete it after a few tries. If they like vanilla, they'll start browsing the wiki or the forums and the tutorials and stumble upon LNP/modest mod, whatever. At least that's how I remember my first steps.
If they found LNP first then more of them -might- stick with the game. At least that's why I updated the macnewbie-pack: better beginner experience -» more new players -» more donations for the continued development of the game. I think that's the combined interest of both Toady and the community.
So, to put more emphasis on my point: these packs should be where the new prospective players will look for them first. And that would be a link from the bay12games download section pointing to their child board.

It's another story where this child board should be located: there's a thin line between a starter pack and a minor mod, for example the above mentioned modest mod is so close to the vanilla experience, that it could be argued that it's place is among the starter packs, as "DF light". Maybe these packs are considered to be a mod, and should be in the modding section. I don't know. Another issue to consider is forum clutter and abandoned projects. The previous LNP v15 has not been updated for a long time, and even though PeridexisErrant's version is gaining popularity, the old one still gets a lot of traffic. That could be improved by moving all them together into a dedicated section, where it's obvious which one is maintained.
Another factor to consider is how links live on the net: if you link to a child board where a new player can find all the up-to-date packs, that link will contain useful information in 2 years time. But if you link to a thread of a pack that get's abandoned in the meantime, that info will be obsolete.
So, what do you think?

[Meph]

You have a good point, with new players not visiting the modding section. Beginners might also not even visit the forum, just download the game and read the wiki to learn.

If you really want to have this somewhere obvious, ask Toady if he can make a child-board for it (like you just did), but also include this on http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/. Thats bay12games, not bay12forum. I can guess that he wont particularily like the idea, but asking does not hurt.

If there will be a child-board, non-modding, for LNP, MacNewbie and similar things, I think the modest mod and accelerated DF might have a place there as well. While technically being mods, they dont add modded content, but simply alter existing one to either fix bugs or fasten FPS.

[AutomataKittay]

How about a subforum in either DF General Discussion or DF Gameplay Questions? A newbie pack would be pretty noticible in either of those spots since it's where they usually comes to seek help or ideas.

I don't know if there'll be enough activity or content to actually susiant one, but it'd be nice for newcomers or infrequent players.

[MagmaMcFry]

Seriously guys, I think that the LNP is popular enough as it is, it's mentioned on the wiki as well as in most DF tutorial videos, anyone with some decent google-fu can find it when he needs it. Also, last I remembered, Toady wasn't exactly supportive of the LNP. And seriously, we don't need subforums for everything; a sticky thread should do the trick.

[PeridexisErrant]

@Meph

I think the modest mod and accelerated DF might have a place there as well.

I'd agree with this.

The thing about a sticky thread is that there are separate packs for each platform, plus all the various semi-inactive or outright discontinued packs lying around - its not just one anymore.

General discussion might be a better place than modding, thoughts on that would be great to hear. The discussion has been really useful too in terms of not just organisation but also the wider place of the LNP generally. If the consensus is that leaving them as part of the general discussion forum is best I'm fine with that too, I just brought it up because I feel it doesn't really fit there.

[Meph]

Well, I have to say that I really dont know. Everyone has some solid points. For me its a utility and should go to the utility section. On the other hand newbs (maybe) wont look there. Maybe Toady doesnt like it, maybe he does, I dont know. But he mentioned that giving me the Masterwork Board would open a "can of worms", because other people will follow the lead and ask for their own boards for all kinds of things.

I am glad how it turned out however. The Utility, Mod-Release and Tileset boards are awesome to have, and of course I wont say anything negative about the MasterworkDF board. It has almost 150 topics now (50 or so just single question threats that should have been done differently, but still a high number)

Putnams/Deons boards... well, it has been ~3 months and they only have Putnams/Deons release threats, one per mod/project. They could very well be merged into the Mod-Releases without taking away much from the users. But I do realize that it is nice to have your name on a board, as a sort of appreciation for the work done over the years. Still, I wouldnt call the boards very active, and I assume something similar would happen to a LNP child-board.

[Putnam]

But I do realize that it is nice to have your name on a board, as a sort of appreciation for the work done over the years.

meh

There haven't been any threads by anyone but me in there, so I'm not really attached. It's kind of cool as, like, I don't know, bragging rights or something, I guess, but it's not too practical.

[Deon]

But I do realize that it is nice to have your name on a board, as a sort of appreciation for the work done over the years.

meh

There haven't been any threads by anyone but me in there, so I'm not really attached. It's kind of cool as, like, I don't know, bragging rights or something, I guess, but it's not too practical.

For me there's more than bragging. It makes it much easier to check existing mod status, also there's space for future questions, polls and such. You can see it looking at Meph's subforum. I mean come on Meph, yours and mine subforums have more posts than the whole "Mod releases" subforum .

Also initially I planned to release more mods at once, but me moving away from my mom's apartment and some troubles with son's first year in school got in the way (as usual). It does not mean the mods are not coming though!

[narhiril]

Redacting this post, as most of it was not constructive.  I apologize.