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Author Topic: Customizable disease mod for contagious, non-communicable and epidemics. Reuse!  (Read 19599 times)

Halfling

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1) No, these interactions target all dwarves. I don't know how I could make it work like that - haven't come across any tags that would let me do that. If someone does know, I'll gladly implement it. I'm currently getting that the probability of you not getting any epidemics at all with your starting 7 is about 70%. Treating them with so few dwarves is easy, just separate them and it'll die out very soon. I'd like some player feedback on if this is too much or not, I'm probably biased myself since I like having my cool interactions flash on the map. Will adjust it as needed.

You could make a "wait" interaction that makes it take one year before an epidemic starter starts the epidemic, but then quarantining migrants, a real-life procedure to avoid epidemics, would be impossible.

2) Currently my suggestion is as drinks, for simplicity's sake. It really is a bit clumsy, though. Store them like you would vauables, and only let dwarves at them when there's need. An airlock system should work for regulating traffic and preventing thirsty dwarves from drinking your potions... that's about it for epidemics. Now delivering blood pressure medication to needy dwarves without permanently hospitalizing them, that's a real problem I haven't yet figured out.

if it were possible to target materials with interactions, then making drugs that dwarves take only when needed would be trivial. I think IT_MATERIAL doesn't work like that, unfortunately. As it is, I think it's either the above or e.g. reactions that generate gas. A third possibility is to make a "doctor" dwarf caste or syndrome that can give the medicine syndromes to others via interactions. You would become one by birth or by drinking a doctor potion (or by a custom "become a doctor" reaction that creates gas that transforms dwarves into doctors).

Or am I missing something? Currently I'm slightly distracted by my attempt to perfect something I started earlier, dwarves brewing creatures into drinks... brewing warmblooded creatures into blood wine and invertebrates into fermented ichor is easy peasy, but apparently how vermin remains are handled means I have to make a separate reaction and material for EVERY SINGLE vermin I want dwarves to make into mezcal (and I want that fluffy wambler mezcal), unless I want one of several bugs


EDIT: If it's something that's good, then I could also easily make this give "profession" syndromes too, such as 1% of dwarves randomly being "doctors" (and while we're at it, 1% could be counselors for psychiatric patients). But I think it sounds a little... stupid.

evictedSaint

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What WOULD be cool is if you could make inherited disease (such as blindness, dwarven dwarfism, psychosis, etc) actually pass down from parent to child. 

I'm not sure if it's possible, but I remember reading something similar happening with a dog-breeding mod a while back...

Broken

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i have to point that hospitalized dwarfs only drink water... so if the medicine is a drink they will never use it.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 11:52:48 am by Broken »
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In a hole in the ground there lived a dwarf. Not a nasty, dirty, wet hole, filled with the ends of worms and an oozy smell, nor yet a dry, bare, sandy hole with nothing in it to sit down on or to eat: it was a dwarf fortress, and that means magma.
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Halfling

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That's actually a hell of a good point. I salute you. In fact I just experienced it first hand, since I just had a fun little uncontained meningitis epidemic and given the chance, dwarves do go to the hospital beds because of the PAIN symptom apparently. I didn't think they would because it's not a physical injury, but they do because apparently it counts as a yellow wound.

Here's my face when I realized how right you are here:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

I guess either it has to be that ambulant dwarves get medical treatment while bedridden dwarves get isolation til their epidemics go away, to remove the pain symptom, or to make medicines food. Hmm. What do you guys think?

Godlysockpuppet

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Make them food :)
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Brilliand

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How about making them something actually hospital-related... such as soap.  :o  The cures doesn't have to be the same thing, actually - if the disease causes use of hospital supplies, make those supplies out of the cure material.  Otherwise, build a mobile pharmacy (a building requiring no materials) in the hospital (or perhaps the meeting area), and give it reactions that take barrels of medicine as reagents and release medicine vapor.
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The blood of our enemies is but a symbol.  The true domain of Armok is magma - mountain's blood.

Halfling

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Might just as well do all three. Herbs that dwarves will not steal before you're ready to use them, and then can be made into either edible, potable or burnable at an incenser. Probably using herbalist labor at a custom workshop.

Medicine should also last a longer time (6 months per go) and epidemics should be a bit more rare. From my playtesting, while this is probably more realistic for the setting as is, you're walking on really thin ice all the time and it's not that much fun. If you have superb micro and play this like a machine, constantly knowing how long it has been since which dwarf went where, you wouldn't even need medicine because epidemics can be dissipated so fast just by using doors; but let one infected dwarf out of quarantine early (many wicked diseases can have no symptoms for a while if you're very unlucky) and you're just screwed, everyone is sick again. So it might be better to make it a little easier. Maybe that'll attract more people who would like to try it too.

Meph

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I was away a couple of days, but I like where this is going.

For medicine: Use a workshop (Apothecary's Study) to transform a dwarf into an "Apothecary", who can cure nearby dwarves. To transform him you need the reagents you want to use for the medicine. The Apothecary can either move around freely, or it is a immobile unit, simulating that he works in his study, and the patients have to come visit him.

The cure could be administered by interactions. It would allow the use of VERB and TARGET_VERB to give feedback to the player about which dwarf is cured of what. Potions do not do that.

Alternatively, the cure could be added by boiling rock directly to a single dwarf using the workshop, but I personally prefer the first one, since people only need to micromanage the single "healer-unit", and not every single infected dwarf.

EDIT: Another info: You can use CE_ADD_TAG:CRAZED, it will lead to loyality cascades. You have to transform another creature (berserk dwarf, or something like that) which already has the crazed tag.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2013, 10:28:27 pm by Meph »
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Brilliand

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The Apothecary can either move around freely, or it is a immobile unit, simulating that he works in his study, and the patients have to come visit him.

Though, immobile units can still be moved around using pens.
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The blood of our enemies is but a symbol.  The true domain of Armok is magma - mountain's blood.

Halfling

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The cure could be administered by interactions. It would allow the use of VERB and TARGET_VERB to give feedback to the player about which dwarf is cured of what. Potions do not do that.

Alternatively, the cure could be added by boiling rock directly to a single dwarf using the workshop, but I personally prefer the first one, since people only need to micromanage the single "healer-unit", and not every single infected dwarf.

EDIT: Another info: You can use CE_ADD_TAG:CRAZED, it will lead to loyality cascades. You have to transform another creature (berserk dwarf, or something like that) which already has the crazed tag.

On the first part: Medicine could just as easily be made to give dwarves interactions that actually cure them and that results in the messages. That might be the best of both worlds.

Second: Are you sure about that? I haven't had that with this mod yet but I don't remember that happening when I was messing around with dwarves having a 1% chance of going berserk every time they drink booze. An affected dwarf moved into the "others" tab from the "citizens" tab and was killed by a recruit wave without incident. Request more info.

Meph

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i used crazed a lot in syndromes and adding it like this causes loyality cascades. it depends who gets the kill... caravan guards and pets are ok, but otherwise you are in trouble. i think the same holds true for interactions, i deleted my "hulk"-plague because of that.

in testforts with 7 dwarves it makes sense to use single reactions for the medicine, curing the worker.  but managing 200 dwarves that way is a horror and would take ages.

EDIT: Anyway, that is all up to you. Before I start using your current raws for anything, how far do you plan to take this? It seems to me that your developement is still ongoing, so I'd rather wait till you are satisfied with your own product. ;)
« Last Edit: June 19, 2013, 04:01:10 am by Meph »
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Halfling

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I obviously need to rework psychosis then if that's what it does. I'll update that when I do the next update, which is sometime this week.

But as for using it in your mod... well, the mechanics are going to stay the same. The diseases need fine-tuning and balancing which is going to take some time, because DF doesn't play any faster than it does. As it is they make playing a little less fun unless you're a real sucker for realistic medieval-style epidemics. The medicine administration system will need to be thought out so it's usable. That's about it, then I would say it's done.

However, if you think you're going to tweak the diseases and define the medicines yourself, then you might just as well use it as is, since I'm not working on the disease interactions themselves anymore, only PROBs and syndromes... except the rabies thing, possibly, but it works as is. But this probably won't take me more than a few weeks to get to the point where I'm happy with the balancing and medicine too. Furthermore if there are things you'd possibly like such as more plagues, I can add things like that with very small effort.

narhiril

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i used crazed a lot in syndromes and adding it like this causes loyality cascades. it depends who gets the kill... caravan guards and pets are ok, but otherwise you are in trouble. i think the same holds true for interactions, i deleted my "hulk"-plague because of that.

I think you can get around that with [OPPOSED_TO_LIFE].

evictedSaint

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Do children born in the fort have a chance to be born with a disease (such as the black plague or the flu)?

Halfling

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Yes they do. Also, if you are somehow transformed into a disease-bearing creature you can catch it.

Also, sorry - I got a little bit excited about this thing and didn't work on this for a while. Pending. As before, the interactions and epidemic spreading and ending work, but there's some errors in CDI verbs, a sample medicine implementation and maybe removing the CRAZED part left to do.
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