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Author Topic: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension  (Read 429352 times)

Shadowlord

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1860 on: January 03, 2016, 02:30:21 pm »

I have to try to remember that. I saw it in the pdf with the shortcut keys at one point but then forgot about it, apparently.
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Dwarf Fortress Map Archive

Cruxador

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1861 on: January 04, 2016, 07:59:54 pm »

Not sure if people care, but my AAR is still going. It's been moderately popular on other sites in the past, so maybe you folks like it too.

The first post is here:  https://cruxador.wordpress.com/2015/11/15/another-aar-stalewarriors/
You can see a list of posts on this game, independent of other unrelated posts, here: https://cruxador.wordpress.com/category/stalewarriors/

Because I feel that within a day I could design an interface that doesn't suck as hard as the one in Dominions.
Do it then. The devs are pretty open to using community-made stuff. Though personally, I don't really see the problem anywhere aside from the messager, which stays that way because if you mention it on their forums, you'll get a bunch of people telling you how dumb you are for using it in the first place.

Quote
Does the game even have waypoints for move orders?
No. That's not an interface thing though, it's a feature. If we're talking features, it would also be nice to automate scouting and site searching, those are like three quarters of the time that my turns take in the mid/late game if there's no war on. Problem is, the automation would have to be good enough to prevent you from just needing to do it yourself anyway.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1862 on: January 04, 2016, 11:18:50 pm »

Not sure if people care, but my AAR is still going. It's been moderately popular on other sites in the past, so maybe you folks like it too.

The first post is here:  https://cruxador.wordpress.com/2015/11/15/another-aar-stalewarriors/
You can see a list of posts on this game, independent of other unrelated posts, here: https://cruxador.wordpress.com/category/stalewarriors/

Because I feel that within a day I could design an interface that doesn't suck as hard as the one in Dominions.
Do it then. The devs are pretty open to using community-made stuff. Though personally, I don't really see the problem anywhere aside from the messager, which stays that way because if you mention it on their forums, you'll get a bunch of people telling you how dumb you are for using it in the first place.

Quote
Does the game even have waypoints for move orders?
No. That's not an interface thing though, it's a feature. If we're talking features, it would also be nice to automate scouting and site searching, those are like three quarters of the time that my turns take in the mid/late game if there's no war on. Problem is, the automation would have to be good enough to prevent you from just needing to do it yourself anyway.

I'm no programmer, but would a script to send scouts and mages to unknown areas, and have the mages site search when they arrive, be pretty easy actually? 
If no scout report, Then send scout.
Mage of x magic path: If no magic site search path x, then Goto province and site search.

Shadowlord

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1863 on: January 04, 2016, 11:33:07 pm »

It stops being simple when you want them to actually consider what order to move through the provinces in, whether to avoid certain provinces because they're dangerous, whether only certain (expensive or unique) units should avoid certain dangerous provinces because some units are actually expendable enough that you would send them even at the risk of losing them, whether any site-search spellcasting or your manual searching would cause the AI to revise its paths due to sites suddenly becoming searched (it couldn't plan for it unless it managed ALL site-searching)...

In the end, it'd be a ton of work to implement for something that most people would probably rather just do manually because they wouldn't trust the AI to not fuck it up due to it not having any way to predict what is coming in the future.
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Dwarf Fortress Map Archive

Kagus

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1864 on: January 05, 2016, 01:47:12 am »

Also, keeping scouts in provinces that you actually want to keep an eye on instead of just taking a cursory glance before moving on.

At the very least, the game HAS made it possible to set up monthly casting of site-searching spells, so it will target a new, unsearched, owned province every turn instead of just re-checking the same one.

AND, let us not forget the big change from Dominions 1, in that you can just click on the province you want to search instead of manually typing in that province's ID code...


There's really only one thing I liked and miss from Dom1, and that's the dynamic terrain map.  Actually being able to *see* the world change because of the provincial scales was really, really cool.

Majestic7

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1865 on: January 05, 2016, 06:38:23 am »

I miss the special Dominion themes from Dom2 you could choose for your god. Those and mutable terrain would be nice to see again. It would be atmospheric to see Abysia turn into a desert and Pangaia into a forest etc.
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Cruxador

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1866 on: January 05, 2016, 11:50:03 pm »

Mutable terrain is awesome but it's a thorny problem with the map system we have. Of the two, I'd rather keep the map system. That said, the random maps do things like sprinkle trees on provinces that should be forest, and if a map maker could add a set of tree sprites (and if undefined, elect to use vanilla ones or disable visual mutability) it would definitely be cool. I'd like it if we could make custom forts and temples and thrones for different maps too, with option to make special ones for special provinces.

I'm no programmer, but would a script to send scouts and mages to unknown areas, and have the mages site search when they arrive, be pretty easy actually? 
If no scout report, Then send scout.
Mage of x magic path: If no magic site search path x, then Goto province and site search.
The problem isn't to make any at all, the problem is that if you don't make it good, anyone who uses it is at a disadvantage. That means that a scout needs some manner of deciding what's important, including both what's important enough to be in, and what's important enough to be near. So they need to assess what nations are probable threats and what areas are probably chokepoints and where there might be troops and battles that you'd like to see. You need some manner of prioritization. "Travel to nearest unrevealed land" might not be very useful, depending on the amount of fucks you give.

Mages are more of a problem, because you need to consider the efficiency of travel, provinces that are searched in some but not all of the paths a mage has, and areas of potentially elevated danger.
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Antioch

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1867 on: January 06, 2016, 07:50:23 am »

Mutable terrain is awesome but it's a thorny problem with the map system we have. Of the two, I'd rather keep the map system. That said, the random maps do things like sprinkle trees on provinces that should be forest, and if a map maker could add a set of tree sprites (and if undefined, elect to use vanilla ones or disable visual mutability) it would definitely be cool. I'd like it if we could make custom forts and temples and thrones for different maps too, with option to make special ones for special provinces.

I'm no programmer, but would a script to send scouts and mages to unknown areas, and have the mages site search when they arrive, be pretty easy actually? 
If no scout report, Then send scout.
Mage of x magic path: If no magic site search path x, then Goto province and site search.
The problem isn't to make any at all, the problem is that if you don't make it good, anyone who uses it is at a disadvantage. That means that a scout needs some manner of deciding what's important, including both what's important enough to be in, and what's important enough to be near. So they need to assess what nations are probable threats and what areas are probably chokepoints and where there might be troops and battles that you'd like to see. You need some manner of prioritization. "Travel to nearest unrevealed land" might not be very useful, depending on the amount of fucks you give.

Mages are more of a problem, because you need to consider the efficiency of travel, provinces that are searched in some but not all of the paths a mage has, and areas of potentially elevated danger.

And this is why the game badly needs an order queue to give orders turns in advance. Giving a lengthy search path order at once is a lot less tedious that having to update the order every turn. Does the strategic situation change as to warrant another order? Fine go ahead, no problem.

And instantly you have the same amount of micromanagement control, but vastly less tedious. 
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EuchreJack

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1868 on: January 07, 2016, 04:07:01 pm »

Mutable terrain is awesome but it's a thorny problem with the map system we have. Of the two, I'd rather keep the map system. That said, the random maps do things like sprinkle trees on provinces that should be forest, and if a map maker could add a set of tree sprites (and if undefined, elect to use vanilla ones or disable visual mutability) it would definitely be cool. I'd like it if we could make custom forts and temples and thrones for different maps too, with option to make special ones for special provinces.

I'm no programmer, but would a script to send scouts and mages to unknown areas, and have the mages site search when they arrive, be pretty easy actually? 
If no scout report, Then send scout.
Mage of x magic path: If no magic site search path x, then Goto province and site search.
The problem isn't to make any at all, the problem is that if you don't make it good, anyone who uses it is at a disadvantage. That means that a scout needs some manner of deciding what's important, including both what's important enough to be in, and what's important enough to be near. So they need to assess what nations are probable threats and what areas are probably chokepoints and where there might be troops and battles that you'd like to see. You need some manner of prioritization. "Travel to nearest unrevealed land" might not be very useful, depending on the amount of fucks you give.

Mages are more of a problem, because you need to consider the efficiency of travel, provinces that are searched in some but not all of the paths a mage has, and areas of potentially elevated danger.

And this is why the game badly needs an order queue to give orders turns in advance. Giving a lengthy search path order at once is a lot less tedious that having to update the order every turn. Does the strategic situation change as to warrant another order? Fine go ahead, no problem.

And instantly you have the same amount of micromanagement control, but vastly less tedious.
Agreed, although the current UI makes me cringe at how an order queue would most likely be implemented.  It would almost certainly, on the first iteration, be harder to queue orders than just issue new orders each turn.

BFEL

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1869 on: January 08, 2016, 08:20:15 pm »

Ok, so I just used a elemental spam cluster in combat, right?
11 mages, each casting Summon Earth Elemental, set up to do it 3 times.

That SHOULD come out to 33 gems right?

So could someone explain why it cost FOUR TIMES THAT MUCH?
I rewatched the battle in question and it only lasted 4 turns, so at worst it should have cost 44 gems, but it ended up leaving me short 132 of the fucking things!

Did...DID THEY *EMPOWER* THE GODDAMN SUMMON SPELLS? THE SPELLS THAT *CANNOT* BENEFIT FROM THAT?

BFEL AM CONFUSE.
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USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1870 on: January 08, 2016, 08:32:11 pm »

Summon Earth Elemental costs 100 fatigue. However empowering the spell using gems would reduce the fatigue that your mages would suffer from, which would explain why they managed to summon four waves of the things. If they didn't empower then they'd summon two at most since the first wave would knock them just barely above the unconscious point, and then they'd recover enough for a second wave that would keep them sleeping for the rest of the battle. So... Yeah. That probably explains what you saw there.
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Delta Foxtrot

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1871 on: January 08, 2016, 08:55:17 pm »

The math, for me anyway, goes something like this:

Number of gems = [cost per cast] x [times I plan to cast] + [?? gotta fix that fatigue]
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BFEL

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1872 on: January 08, 2016, 09:02:29 pm »

Well I guess they're gonna be casting only two of those per battle then, because FUCK that cost.

Will reinvigorating items help this at all?
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USEC_OFFICER

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1873 on: January 08, 2016, 09:13:24 pm »

At 100 fatigue a summon? They wouldn't help much. Forging Earth Boots and using Summon Earthpower is probably your best bet to manage fatigue and gems. Assuming that you're using E2 mages to spam Earth Elementals, that'll get them up to E4 and should let them suffer only 50 fatigue per summon. You'll have to have a scout or something following your army so that you can ration out gems, but I think that that should work. I would certainly test that out first before using it.
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BFEL

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Re: Dominions 4: Thrones of Ascension
« Reply #1874 on: January 08, 2016, 09:16:06 pm »

At 100 fatigue a summon? They wouldn't help much. Forging Earth Boots and using Summon Earthpower is probably your best bet to manage fatigue and gems. Assuming that you're using E2 mages to spam Earth Elementals, that'll get them up to E4 and should let them suffer only 50 fatigue per summon. You'll have to have a scout or something following your army so that you can ration out gems, but I think that that should work. I would certainly test that out first before using it.
Thanks, I'll do that.
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