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Author Topic: barrels and jugs for brewer  (Read 3851 times)

WhimsyWink

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Re: barrels and jugs for brewer
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2013, 04:10:09 pm »

... where's the [face-palm] smiley when you need it?

I probably saw pot and thought "jug" way back in the beginning ... jug of moonshine ... pots should be for honey LOL

thanks

are pots and large pots in the same category?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2013, 04:13:40 pm by WhimsyWink »
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knutor

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Re: barrels and jugs for brewer
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2013, 06:22:51 pm »

I think glazed clay large pots are the penultimate food container, takes nothing that can't be replaced, if made in magma kiln.  With wooden barrels, a close 2nd.  Those ordinary pots, from dwarfcraft, don't hold much.  This is all speculation, its just what has been successful in my forts.  Once ya get, a clay system up and running, ya can save some wood to make charcoal for steel or jailhouse beds.  That's sorta the course I take.  I like to diversify my wood industry, according to which cavern, topside, the wood came from, to shorten hauling and conserve the precious few nethercaps I find, for shields, crutches and splints.  Sincerely, Knutor
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Brilliand

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Re: barrels and jugs for brewer
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2013, 07:42:01 pm »

I think glazed clay large pots are the penultimate food container, takes nothing that can't be replaced, if made in magma kiln.  With wooden barrels, a close 2nd.  Those ordinary pots, from dwarfcraft, don't hold much.  This is all speculation, its just what has been successful in my forts.  Once ya get, a clay system up and running, ya can save some wood to make charcoal for steel or jailhouse beds.  That's sorta the course I take.  I like to diversify my wood industry, according to which cavern, topside, the wood came from, to shorten hauling and conserve the precious few nethercaps I find, for shields, crutches and splints.  Sincerely, Knutor

Pots hold twice as much food as barrels, no matter what material they're made of.  Stone pots weigh about 13 times as much as barrels, and glazed earthenware pots weigh half that.

I actually find the stone for stone pots easier to come by than the ash or tin for glazing, or even the wood for barrels, so I use stone pots for most purposes.  I have some unglazed earthenware pots in my current fort, but I can't seem to get my dwarves to use them for solid food storage.
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knutor

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Re: barrels and jugs for brewer
« Reply #18 on: June 22, 2013, 02:34:11 pm »

I like your strat.  I'll try that, next.  Just lost my hunter to a cave croc, well, didn't wait to see him die.  However he lost his leg, so I guess it was a sure thing, since I have no military and nobody on patient moving.  So.. I'm rerolling.  HEH!

My problem with stoneware is finding clay, or hauling clay.  Still haven't learned to use the Toady's choo-choo system.  I imagine that a cart would be ideal for hauling clay down 100s of z-levels, to a magma kiln. But.. Knutor's learning curve, is sloped heavily against him.

Ever make or try wooden pots?  I've been flooding out cavern three and making the surfaces as muddy as possible in these long games, to farm more wood to experiment with.  Sincerely, Knutor
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"I don't often drink Mead, but when I do... I prefer Dee Eef's.  -The most interesting Dwarf in the World.  Stay thirsty, my friend.
Shark Dentistry, looking in the Raws.

Brilliand

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Re: barrels and jugs for brewer
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2013, 04:07:10 pm »

My problem with stoneware is finding clay, or hauling clay.  Still haven't learned to use the Toady's choo-choo system.  I imagine that a cart would be ideal for hauling clay down 100s of z-levels, to a magma kiln. But.. Knutor's learning curve, is sloped heavily against him.

For hauling down, try a drop chute.  You'll probably need a minecart to automate it anyway, but you won't need much track (just one track stop).

Ever make or try wooden pots?  I've been flooding out cavern three and making the surfaces as muddy as possible in these long games, to farm more wood to experiment with.  Sincerely, Knutor

Wooden pots would be 2.5 times as heavy as wooden barrels... if you have plenty of wood, that's probably a good idea.  However, I usually find wood a pretty limited resource.
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Garath

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Re: barrels and jugs for brewer
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2013, 05:13:50 pm »

arn't wooden pots called barrels?

Anyway, after you get magma forges working and made enough steel to last a while and everyone has a bed, I usually find I have hardly any use for wood anymore
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Sutremaine

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Re: barrels and jugs for brewer
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2013, 06:12:00 pm »

arn't wooden pots called barrels?
Pots have the tuber / traction bench symbol and can be made of wood (woodcrafting / crafter's), stone (stonecrafting / crafter's), glass (glassmaking / glass furnace), or metal (metalcrafting / forge).

Barrels have the % symbol (or close enough) and are only made of wood (carpentry / carpenter's). They are also the only valid items for creating an ashery and dyer's. Those workshops predate pots and call for a barrel in their construction, and the code was never updated from 'barrel' to 'non-porous food storage item'.
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kingubu

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Re: barrels and jugs for brewer
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2013, 06:41:38 pm »

Barrels can be made of metal too.  I just did a fort where everything was made out of brass, because Michael Moorcock.
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Sutremaine

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Re: barrels and jugs for brewer
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2013, 07:56:13 pm »

Okay, and metal barrels too. Those are made by blacksmiths, I believe.
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Honestly at the time, I didn't see what could go wrong with crowding 80 military Dwarves into a small room with a necromancer for the purpose of making bacon.

Brilliand

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Re: barrels and jugs for brewer
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2013, 09:52:37 pm »

Anyway, after you get magma forges working and made enough steel to last a while and everyone has a bed, I usually find I have hardly any use for wood anymore

There's also bins.  Those are needed in about the same quantity as pots (unless you're doing quantum stockpiles), and are limited to the same materials as barrels.
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Larix

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Re: barrels and jugs for brewer
« Reply #25 on: June 23, 2013, 03:26:43 am »

My problem with stoneware is finding clay, or hauling clay.  Still haven't learned to use the Toady's choo-choo system.  I imagine that a cart would be ideal for hauling clay down 100s of z-levels, to a magma kiln. But.. Knutor's learning curve, is sloped heavily against him.

For hauling down, try a drop chute.  You'll probably need a minecart to automate it anyway, but you won't need much track (just one track stop).

Ever make or try wooden pots?  I've been flooding out cavern three and making the surfaces as muddy as possible in these long games, to farm more wood to experiment with.  Sincerely, Knutor

Wooden pots would be 2.5 times as heavy as wooden barrels... if you have plenty of wood, that's probably a good idea.  However, I usually find wood a pretty limited resource.

I guess this 'two and a half times as heavy' thing comes from the wiki. I wonder what on earth has been compared there. To give some numbers from a fort of mine:

empty willow barrel - 7 dk (dwarf kilo)
empty birchen barrel - 13 dk
empty green glass pot - 13 dk
for comparison: empty willow cage - 11 dk; empty green glass terrarium - 78 dk

To clinch it, i ordered a pot and barrel made of lead:
large lead pot (requires one bar of lead) - 56 dk
lead barrel (requires three bars) - 226 dk

A barrel of the same material weighs _four times as much_ as a large pot.

A pot filled to capacity with foodstuff usually weighs twice as much or a bit more than a barrel similarly stuffed. But that's a direct result of the larger capacity. Where capacity doesn't matter (booze) or where it isn't fully used (egg containers because of the egg weight bug[1], many prepared food containers because of inconvenient stack sizes...), pots weigh about the same as barrels. They're rarely heavy enough for weight to be a serious issue - a filled-to-capacity stone pot would weigh between 90 and 100 dk, a full barrel between 45 and 50. Hauling slowdown at those weights only matters over long distances.

[1] eggs lose all (or very nearly so) their weight when saving and reloading. Have a stack of giant emu egg that won't fit into your egg barrel (with 400 eggs inside) because they weigh a hundred dk? Save and reload, the stack weighs '<1 dk' and fits.
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Brilliand

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Re: barrels and jugs for brewer
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2013, 04:33:41 am »

I guess this 'two and a half times as heavy' thing comes from the wiki. I wonder what on earth has been compared there. To give some numbers from a fort of mine:

empty willow barrel - 7 dk (dwarf kilo)
empty birchen barrel - 13 dk
empty green glass pot - 13 dk
for comparison: empty willow cage - 11 dk; empty green glass terrarium - 78 dk

To clinch it, i ordered a pot and barrel made of lead:
large lead pot (requires one bar of lead) - 56 dk
lead barrel (requires three bars) - 226 dk

A barrel of the same material weighs _four times as much_ as a large pot.

Huh... you're right.  Just tried this with wood (of a consistent type - Masterwork DF scrapwood) with roughly the same results - empty pots weigh 2, empty barrels weigh 9.  Apparently the wiki is wrong.  Given the numbers in question, it could be a misplaced decimal point.

EDIT: Had barrels and pots backward.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 04:50:41 am by Brilliand »
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Miriage

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Re: barrels and jugs for brewer
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2013, 04:44:44 am »

I believe the numbers in the wiki are just a comparison of rock pots vs wood barrels.
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Brilliand

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Re: barrels and jugs for brewer
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2013, 04:54:57 am »

I believe the numbers in the wiki are just a comparison of rock pots vs wood barrels.

Except that would give a factor of 1.3, unless the pots were made of something like cobaltite.

EDIT: Just noticed that the wiki edit that added the 2.5 number has the comment "as it is right now, there is pretty much NO reason to ever make barrels in 0.34.11".
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 04:58:42 am by Brilliand »
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Larix

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Re: barrels and jugs for brewer
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2013, 05:08:09 am »

Yeah, i think whoever edited that in read the raws wrong and counted one zero too many or too few for one of the items (coming up with an 'item size' of barrels of 0,4 times that of pots instead of 4 times).
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