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How many want to keep this up in the next release?

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Author Topic: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.  (Read 254578 times)

mastahcheese

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #480 on: July 07, 2013, 05:09:15 pm »

Ok, Since my interaction is still failing, I've been working on a crop that actually gives alcohol.
StLeibowitz, did you make an alcohol template for your stuff? I've made one but I want it to be more distinguished.
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The Derail Thread

Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #481 on: July 07, 2013, 05:25:11 pm »

snip

I'm loving that "hobbit holes" carved in the hillside are how you play hobbits now. As it should be. Looking forward to seeing what happens when the fort grows!

Ok, Since my interaction is still failing, I've been working on a crop that actually gives alcohol.
StLeibowitz, did you make an alcohol template for your stuff? I've made one but I want it to be more distinguished.

Oh yeah, sorry. Your interaction to make contagious wizards works fine, with the following changes:

[IT_REQUIRES:MORTAL] (I had no idea what that was)
[CDI:USAGE_HINT:GREETING] (why have this? makes them lazier in using it and they will still use it on anybody as if they didn't have any hint)
in target A, +[IT_MANUAL_INPUT:target] for easier testing

and result -


If you at some point want to make a fixed part of the population contagious wizards without using extra castes or needing to rely on divine curses, could pretty much reuse my vampire parts too since they do exactly that except for vampirism.

Leibowitz has an alcohol template, but as with everything above, that doesn't mean you can't make your own  :P

Edit: also, I think you want to add a START:0 to the display name part.

StLeibowitz

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #482 on: July 07, 2013, 05:59:47 pm »

Actually, I do not have a dedicated alcohol template. I have a miscellaneous edible creature liquid template, and specifically defined Honeywine as an alcohol in the inorganics file.
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Generally, when one is conducting an experiment, it is worth noting that the observers went insane, killed each other, and then rose from the dead.
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Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #483 on: July 07, 2013, 06:25:28 pm »

My bad. Yeah, that template actually wouldn't work for defining alcohols very well upon closer look, seeing how things based on it rot and all that. So a drink template is still out... Anyway, more finds:

1. This probably shouldn't have happened:



Also, should those be larva and not children? :P

2. Playing as the formics is very cool. Very alien feeling. Congrats. Might need a play guide though, or a summary of what the castes and new nobles do for one who does not want to read the raws.

3. I had no problems with milking aphids and brewing honeydew. However, is 1 unit of honeydew supposed to produce 25 units of wine? That's how much you get from milking one aphid once.

If not, I think it's because the dimension 30 determines the product amount and does not correspond to "1 unit of honeydew". Could set it to a higher number, with 150 being for 1, or add 1 more [DOES_NOT_DETERMINE_PRODUCT_AMOUNT] - using one bucket of honeydew always nets 5 units of wine.

The latter also makes it go into barrels properly. A stack of 25 honey wine does not fit in a barrel and that's why they were just pouring it on the floor.

StLeibowitz

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #484 on: July 07, 2013, 07:48:28 pm »

You, Halfling, have just solved the chief issues I was puzzled over. I was thinking it had something to do with the size, but I've never touched a reaction before this week, so the numbers set there were essentially completely arbitrary. Do they drink the honeywine properly? Also, did a member of the Queen caste arrive at your Formic settlement? I'll probably write a guide along the lines of your own "how to Halflings" post once bugs are fixed and their features are set.

Also, a suggestion for the next modder: cheaper metal for tools. Meteoric Iron, Jaded Slade, and Celestium are all pretty high-quality, and very pricey, and Promethium isn't a tool metal (I could make it one in the patch as a stopgap, perhaps).

EDIT: Missed Item 1 in your list. Properly, they should really be 'nymphs', as I don't know how to make DF model metamorphoses or a larval stage well. They're mini-adults, so nymphs would make sense. Also, what shouldn't have happened? The mallard fat food?

EDIT2: Ah, crap. I'll have to define the general child name for each creature; seems hiding it in the variation isn't working like I thought.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 07:57:28 pm by StLeibowitz »
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Generally, when one is conducting an experiment, it is worth noting that the observers went insane, killed each other, and then rose from the dead.
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Slothman400

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #485 on: July 07, 2013, 08:12:51 pm »

I've been thinking about something:

We need humans to battle the formics, but humans with swords and shields and castles would be too vanilla. Modern humans would be much more interesting. Vanilla humans with better tech would out-compete everything in world gen, and be boring. So here's my idea; Human survivors. They could wear lots of leather and fight with golf clubs, baseball bats, knives and guns. They could act quite a bit like kobolds, i.e. living in camps, stealing, ambushing.

Sadly, I have made little progress learning to mod. What do you guys think of my ideas?
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StLeibowitz

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #486 on: July 07, 2013, 10:23:56 pm »

I've decided to post a quick guide to Formics right now, and update it if any major bugs or revisions impact them.
=======================
Formics: An Introductory Course

Well, first things first: Formics are a caste-based society that is modeled on ant hives. They are divided into four castes, which I'll get into in a second, but one of the most important things to remember is this: don't get attached to the buggers. The vast majority of them will not see their eighth* birthday.

Two other important differences from Halflings and the mythical dwarves: they do not sleep, and they have exoskeletons. Their chitinous exteriors make them far more durable than only-flesh-and-bone softskins could be, but due to the rather violent and equally chitinous nature of much of the fauna they need this advantage just to be able to go toe-to-tarsus in battle. Their lack of sleep means you will never need to build a bed outside of a hospital - the tyranny of the Third Migration Wave is over! No more rush to build a giant dormitory or (oh God why) individual bedrooms for the new migrants; they wouldn't appreciate it even if you did. This does, however, come with drawbacks.

The Caste System

Workers
These are the bedrock of Formic society, and of Formic colonies that you found. They are by far the most numerous, but also a bit dim-witted - they learn all skills except fishing, farming, mining, and wood cutting at 60% efficiency. At fishing, farming, mining, and wood cutting, they improve their skills 20% faster, though - and they'll need all that speed, because they'll keel over at the ripe old age of 5. They are literally born ready to work, though, or very nearly so, so any domestically produced workers will provide more use than immigrants. Their tiles flash between 'A' and 'w', to help pick them out of a crowd.

Soldiers
Born shock troops, Formic soldiers are bigger than any other caste save the Queens. They learn Formic-related combat skills faster (spear, sword, dodging, shield, and fighting), but where they really shine is their ability to enter martial trances. The also feel no fear, and so will fight to the death to defend the hive. As a downside, they have 3 years of useless resource sucking before being able to take up a scimitar; they do, however, live longer than the workers - up to 12 years if you're lucky, allowing them time to earn some experience and train the next generation. Their tiles flash from 'A' to 's'.

For those poor softskin-players whose Halflings start at war with the Formics, take note that Formic Soldiers are trapavoid. Have fun with that :)

Drones
Drones are there for breeding. That is basically all they should be used for - producing babbies, and artisan jobs that workers have trouble grasping. They have neither skill bonuses nor maluses, and are larger than the average worker (not quite soldier-size); they also live for up to thirty years. Most importantly, they are exceptionally rare - 150 times less likely to be born than workers, and 50 times less likely than a soldier - and thus should be protected almost as well as a Queen. Whatever you do, don't send these guys to the front lines against the spider-centaurs - not unless you have backups. If you only have one, send a legendary miner worker to battle ahead of him, for the Queen's sake. Workers are expendable. Drones, less so.

Queens
The immortal female caste of the Formics. They are incredibly rare - 1500 times less likely than a worker! - and incredibly valuable. A single queen is not picky about what male she mates with (no husbands!), and can produce as many as 8 nymphs at once. If you get a Queen, protect her - keep her in a well-provisioned chamber deep under a mountain, with a labyrinth of atom smashers between her and potential threats, or something similarly thorough, because in all likelihood if she dies you will never see another. If you have a queen, workers are basically expendable, and a single Queen and Drone together could theoretically repopulate an entire hive after some kind of magma-related apocalypse, though how that would happen I'm not sure, since I don't think we have any magma-safe materials to make a pump stack out of.

Queens are the largest caste of Formics as well, so their size should provide some measure of defense against the average home invader, but I recommend not ever letting it become a factor.

The Nobility
Allets
Formic word for "chief". This is an expedition leader. He is your broker and that guy who meets with dissatisfied workers and such, as well as judge and jury in the Hive in the Everqueen's name.

Ashalim
...and this guy is your executioner. None of those sissy dwarven hammerings, either - just a sharpened scimitar to cut down any fool worker who decided to disobey his superior. Additionally he fills the role of militia commander, and leads the as-scuteri squad in defense of the hive.

Scribe
A combination manager/record keeper, of whom you can have three.

Mesarthim
The Ashalim's subordinates, in charge of mes-scuteri squads (basically, the militia, though thanks to the biological caste system this holds a bit more weight than it does among softskins)

Chirurgeon General
Chief medical formic. Not much else to say.

Regent
The chief representative of the Everqueen in each settlement. Properly, a drone, though often a member of a lower caste if they prove capable. They expect rather odd quarters for Formics, but then, folks in power tend to be a bit eccentric, right? In any case, they'd very much like a bedroom, and some other rooms. They can impose demands and mandates, too, so you'll have those to deal with.

The Everqueen
The immortal goddess-queen herself. Always a member of the Queen caste, and if she ever shows up at your fortress I had no part in it because I haven't a clue how to properly work monarch-arrival thing, if it's even possible. If she does, though, hey - free Queen!

On Alcohol

Insects are not immune to drunkenness, sadly. While Honeywine is safer than water reservoirs due to its inability to be contaminated with lovely syndromes, Formics will get drunk off of it as well. Like with haflings, it's a good idea to maintain some form of safe water cistern for drinking purposes.
----------------------------------------
*eighth is perhaps the single most awkward word in english to spell, which I realized when typing.
===============================

And that's the quick-reference guide to Formic society. Have fun, don't talk to strange insects, etcetera.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 01:19:20 pm by StLeibowitz »
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Generally, when one is conducting an experiment, it is worth noting that the observers went insane, killed each other, and then rose from the dead.
It's like DF inhaled a peanut.

StLeibowitz

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #487 on: July 07, 2013, 11:40:48 pm »

Okay, Patch 1 has been put up. I forgot the wood...but there are more disease vermin now (completely optional - slight modding required, by which I mean replace "!"s with brackets)
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Generally, when one is conducting an experiment, it is worth noting that the observers went insane, killed each other, and then rose from the dead.
It's like DF inhaled a peanut.

mastahcheese

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #488 on: July 08, 2013, 01:11:21 am »

THANK YOU

And actually, rather than bothering with castes or whatever, I was thinking on adding in a friendly trading race that would bring in the wizards.
Also, on that note, I read on the wiki that if a creature has the SUPERNATURAL tag, along with a sphere token, it will automatically give that creature access to any secrets that sphere has.
Would my interaction allow me to infect people with supernaturalism and a sphere token? That way adding new powers for them along with new sphere would be relatively easy, along with giving magic a more distinct flavor in-game.

And yeah, I went ahead and made my own alcohol template.
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The Derail Thread

laularukyrumo

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #489 on: July 08, 2013, 01:25:04 am »

I haven't tested this explicitly, but I have a feeling that Jaded Slade is showing up as a usable material because it lacks [SPECIAL]. I know from the wiki that [SPECIAL] is implied by both [DEEP_SURFACE] and [DEEP_SPECIAL], and from experience that adamantine and slade will never show up in caravans... so theoretically, [SPECIAL] would keep it out of caravans without restricting it to hell.

Also I suppose I'll start working on some more inorganics. That was going to be the focus of my turn anyways, since everybody else went to town on creatures and/or entities. I've got my uber-metal and its requisites mostly complete, and I still haven't finished my TESTING to see if you can, indeed, put creatures in Hell, so now seems like a good time to make things from our templates. We also need a gem template, I'll be getting on that.
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mastahcheese

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #490 on: July 08, 2013, 01:27:16 am »

Well, found out myself, SPHERE tokens can't be added through interactions, as far as I can tell. Bummer, have to do it the hard way.
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The Derail Thread

Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #491 on: July 08, 2013, 02:24:12 am »

Sadly, I have made little progress learning to mod. What do you guys think of my ideas?

An alternative human civ might be good. There's many ways it could go like dark, militaristic humans, steampunk humans, thrall humans, indeed thieving human survivalists... the latter is a pretty cool idea. I'm not sure if I would go for modern tech, but if someone adds it, why not. There's plenty of older tech that could be used too, like arquebuses and catapults.

I haven't tested this explicitly, but I have a feeling that Jaded Slade is showing up as a usable material because it lacks [SPECIAL]. I know from the wiki that [SPECIAL] is implied by both [DEEP_SURFACE] and [DEEP_SPECIAL], and from experience that adamantine and slade will never show up in caravans... so theoretically, [SPECIAL] would keep it out of caravans without restricting it to hell

Yes, my point was that since BFEL's jaded slade is supposed to be undiggable and a special material, it's a little stupid that you can just buy it at embark or from caravans. That might work, should try it.

We definitely need some minerals in this, so great timing!

I don't know how to make DF model metamorphoses or a larval stage well.

First you would need something that sorts creatures by body size. Then:
  • Create a "larva" creature, either generic for all insects or one for every insect. Either one will work.
  • Your creature has an interaction to transform itself into a larva for the development period if its bodysize is small (or age is small)

Would be several advantages to that approach, like larva not being able to open doors. The main problem here is you need something that lets the creature know what age or size it is.

Linking your play guide to 1st post.

mastahcheese

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #492 on: July 08, 2013, 02:31:09 am »

Oh man, OCD people are going to flip the freak out when they play this mod, all right. That Jaded Slade, man, you are one cruel person.
Also, I made my alcohol template give people nausea to simulate being drunk. Vomit, just vomit everywhere.

I spent so long making a tower out of the nice, uniform, generic "rock" and my Halflings painted it a lovely hue of vomit.
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The Derail Thread

Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #493 on: July 08, 2013, 02:45:39 am »

Alcohol or at least varieties of it in this mod giving you a hangover some of the time would be ☼brilliant☼. So much fun for any dwarf-likes :D

BFEL

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #494 on: July 08, 2013, 06:44:42 am »

Also, I found a vein of jaded slade in fortress mode. Saved my halflings from dying of thirst, too. Nice. Interesting how it had an aquifer deep in the earth.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO that was supposed to annoy you not save you dammit LOL. Just kidding, though it IS meant to annoy people, its nice someone found a use for it. And on that note:

Oh man, OCD people are going to flip the freak out when they play this mod, all right. That Jaded Slade, man, you are one cruel person.

And don't you forget it! I might be really newbish in my modding technique, but damned if I can't give you an aneurism when I want to :P

Also the Jaded Slade being brought by caravans and such IS kinda intentional. As some people have found ways to mine undiggable stone, I wanted the world to reflect that, its supposed to be really rare and crazy valuable though, don't know how well I did on that part.

By the way, has anyone made any vermin hunting pets yet? If not I would like to put together a few raws for that sorta thing and submit them to whoevers turn it is, if that's ok with you guys?
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