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How many want to keep this up in the next release?

Me
- 16 (22.9%)
Me!
- 54 (77.1%)

Total Members Voted: 69


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Author Topic: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.  (Read 491375 times)

Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #675 on: July 15, 2013, 06:44:30 pm »

It's not the template. Or it really shouldn't be, since the amethysts I've found in my travels don't make doors and I've found them as large gems.

kg/m3 is kilograms per square meter, a reasonable (small) unit of density and the liquid density of water in DF is 1000, corresponding to the real life value of 1000 kg/m3.

StLeibowitz

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #676 on: July 15, 2013, 06:49:19 pm »

That's the unit? kg/m3? That makes a great deal more sense than what the wiki claims it to be - per cubic millimeter ( m-3 ). Thank you!

EDIT: Revision 6 up. Suggest to Laularukyrumo upgrading my raws before posting his.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2013, 07:02:02 pm by StLeibowitz »
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Generally, when one is conducting an experiment, it is worth noting that the observers went insane, killed each other, and then rose from the dead.
It's like DF inhaled a peanut.

Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #677 on: July 15, 2013, 07:16:34 pm »

Actually kg/m-3 would be kgm3, which is an unit of something like momentum times square area or net volumetric flux times mass over time (I don't know if that is actually a thing) so that's definitely wrong. Kilograms per mm3 would be kg/(10-3m)3 (or kg/mm3).



Some more post-adventure notes about the current state of things, after losing half a dozen halflings. Man, they die easily. Anyway:
1. Paladinism is awesome. Being a vampire is such a hassle in this version, you basically want to pick it every time just so you don't become one.

The major problem with vampirism is that you have three hunger counters, and Toady apparently did not have vampire customization in mind when designing the UI - your regular thirst counter and hunger counter are obscured from view and only vampiric thirst is visible if you are a bloodsucker, even if you don't have NO_DRINK and NO_EAT. They are still there, however, and visible on the health screen and have their effects on you as usual. Unfortunately I don't think there's anything we can do about this. Well, there is one thing.


That should logically work, does in arena so far and produces no errorlog. Explanation: players turned into vampires can optionally remove hunger and thirst to not have to deal with the broken interface. The AI never does so vampires not drinking are not a problem otherwise.

2. Spider centaur gear is not compatible with halflings or any other race right now. I wonder what the threshold is? I think it might be good for adv mode if their body size were set to 40k after all, but OTOH the lack of foreign equipment variety in adv mode is a transient problem as more races are added.

greycat

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #678 on: July 15, 2013, 07:26:51 pm »

That's the unit? kg/m3? That makes a great deal more sense than what the wiki claims it to be - per cubic millimeter ( m-3 ).

On Density it says kg·m−3 which is just a silly way of writing kg/m3.

In fact, I'm going to go change it right now.
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StLeibowitz

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #679 on: July 15, 2013, 07:34:37 pm »

Vampirism stuff added. Revision 6.5 is now up.


On Density it says kg·m−3 which is just a silly way of writing kg/m3.

In fact, I'm going to go change it right now.

I may have mistranscribed the actual writing, which is pretty inexcusable since I have the webpage open right in front of me.  :-[

And doubly  :-[ because it seems that over the summer I completely forgot how to read units. Uh...sorry, folks, nothing to see here...
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Generally, when one is conducting an experiment, it is worth noting that the observers went insane, killed each other, and then rose from the dead.
It's like DF inhaled a peanut.

Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #680 on: July 15, 2013, 07:48:46 pm »

Sweet, thanks. Makes playing as a vampire more viable. Also, it took me like 5 minutes to parse how you actually say cubic millimeter. Summer.

Revision 6.5 is great. One thing to keep in mind is that the more revisions there are... well, when there are few revisions, it's possible you did everything right from the start. But considering the success we've had in creating unexpected, sometimes hilarious bugs like the "37 fallen star anvils" thing, river deltas of rave or meat being worth infinite negative money, in addition to the classic "my creature does not have a head/internal skeleton/mouth to scream" issues, it's more like the more revisions there are, the more you cared to finish and polish things.

mastahcheese

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #681 on: July 15, 2013, 07:50:41 pm »

So when are we going to upload the newest revision, anyhow? Did you guys get the stuff I added in?
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The Derail Thread

StLeibowitz

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #682 on: July 15, 2013, 08:03:20 pm »

So when are we going to upload the newest revision, anyhow? Did you guys get the stuff I added in?

Are you referring to the wizard stuff you uploaded? Because honestly, before Laula realized it was actually his turn, I thought it was your turn to mod, and that was your turn's raws, and thus did not add them to mine.
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Generally, when one is conducting an experiment, it is worth noting that the observers went insane, killed each other, and then rose from the dead.
It's like DF inhaled a peanut.

mastahcheese

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #683 on: July 15, 2013, 08:28:50 pm »

I don't think my turn is for quite a while, but if you want to count that as my turn, that'd probably make more sense.
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Might as well chalk it up to Pathos.
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The Derail Thread

Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #684 on: July 15, 2013, 08:31:06 pm »

Depends on which you mean. Newest version of StL should be up. The next upload with a package of completely new stuff should be coming in a few days as laula uploads the results of his turn.

Mastahcheese's wizards are here, were mentioned in earlier posts. http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=7831
Can't speak as to whether people who are now having modding turns (technically that's laula but stl has also included lesser new features) included them yet.

I'm personally a bit concerned about the rate of wizardry propagation, but needs playtesting. Wizard propagation starts 103200 phases after "infection" and happens every 53200 phases (44 days) since. Meaning that for every wizard in the fort there will be a new one every 44 days. Does that mean this is correct?

[snip]

Giving us roughly this amount of wizards in the fortress after n days (horizontal axis):

[snip]

edit: had incorrect plots. Will make new ones soon. Edit2: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=127552.msg4408196#msg4408196

emeralis00

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #685 on: July 15, 2013, 08:46:05 pm »

Aaaaah. New stuff keeps getting added. *Re-downloads*
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Halfling

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #686 on: July 15, 2013, 09:05:35 pm »

I was too stupid to figure out how to express the wizard propagation as a function, so I made a shell script modeling it instead, with values 53200 and 106400.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Giving this result:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Assuming I did that correctly, I guess it's not that excessive in the short term. But it should be expected that any form of geometric growth in wizardry will turn your entire fortress into wizards eventually and it tends to snowball. The same happens with vampires incidentally, but slower (delays are a year) and they'll kill more than they convert if not stopped.

StLeibowitz

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #687 on: July 15, 2013, 09:13:29 pm »

I think a standard exponential growth graph would describe the situation perfectly. The paladinizing interaction might interrupt that, though; if every halfling who is not a wizard becomes a paladin, the growth would be cut off. This could potentially lead to the slightly scary proposition of only vampires being allowed to become wizards, which - combined with their other abilities - would make them terrifying to face in adventure mode.
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Generally, when one is conducting an experiment, it is worth noting that the observers went insane, killed each other, and then rose from the dead.
It's like DF inhaled a peanut.

laularukyrumo

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #688 on: July 15, 2013, 09:22:12 pm »

Okay. I haven't explicitly done any testing, barring making sure that hell riders don't instantly fall over dead every single time, so I'm operating under the assumption that "everything SHOULD work in theory, but this is not theory, this is Dwarf Fortress."

CHANGES BEING ADDED:

Explicitly defined a hell material.... but it's still ice, basically. It has a fixed temp, no melting/boiling/ignite points, is undiggable, and it looks like ice.

Iridium, a high-tier metal that takes a lot of effort to smelt. Comes in the form of Native Iridium, and I tried to make it semi-rare, but not impossible to find. However, in order to smelt it.... 1 boulder of native Iridium, 1 boulder of Oxyline, and 1 bar of fuel, steel-making style, will return... a boulder of Processed Iridium. You still can't use it for metal. You need to smelt 2 boulders of Processed Iridium and a boulder of Magmaline, and it'll give you a single bar of Iridium. Have fun!

Oxyline, as it turns out, comes in clusters in sedimentary layers. It holds aquifer and is not magma-safe.
Magmaline is not found in the earth. You need to kill a Pale Rider in order to get one. They can be found in the magma sea and in the third caverns, and are !!fun!!.

Two new metals, Aeresium and Lunanium. The former is a semi-dense, magma-safe metal that can be used for constructions, while Lunanium is not magma-safe, but is very dense and is weapons-grade. Their ores, Aeresiumite and Lunaniumite, can be found in igneous and sedimentary rock, respectively. Aeresiumite is also found in alluvial stone.

Lots of new soils, using the new soil template. I couldn't be arsed to figure out clay, so no clay for you. You do get a new kind of sand (Red sand, available everywhere but the oceans), two new kinds of dirt (brown dirt and blue dirt, the latter of which is Aquifer-ready), and two kinds of ooze (Black ooze and blue ooze, both of which are oceanic soil, and the blue ooze is aquifer-enabled.)

New stones! Horichoko is a generic magma-safe rock that shows up in sedimentary clusters--pretty much its only purpose is to make oxyline slightly less common. Everything else is layer stones. We have Tetraline and Leylite, both igneous intrusive; Polynzite, igneous extrusive; Azurine and Kazurot, both sedimentary; and Zhorale, Nechetite, and Chaosine, all metamorphic. Some of them have interesting properties: Nechetite and Azurine are not magma-safe, but have a lower colddam point. Tetraline and Polynzite both have much higher melting points, and Leylite can never melt, boil, burn, or freeze. Chaosine has rather ominous values for everything and is now the material used for hollow tubes, and Nechetite.... well, I'm quite literally including it solely to see if metamorphic, aquifer stone will flood caverns. Mwehehehehe..... Turns out, yes, aquifer metamorphic stone does flood the caverns, but it also rapes your FPS, so I took that out.

I'm gonna redownload the latest update, merge my raws with it, add the reactions required for Iridium Processing to all civilized, metal-using races, and then upload.

EDIT:Remind me, can halflings work metal in fort mode without PERMITTED_JOB:FURNACE_OPERATOR ? Cause if I give them access to iridium smelting at all, I'm afraid they might start making iridium things if I give them the permitted reactions. You can take iridium items on embark, but they're ludicrously expensive. It's better just not to.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 05:00:12 pm by laularukyrumo »
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StLeibowitz

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Re: DF from scratch: The entirely player-made universe succession.
« Reply #689 on: July 15, 2013, 09:28:33 pm »

I'm quite literally including it solely to see if metamorphic, aquifer stone will flood caverns. Mwehehehehe.....

Noooo! The cave mold! You monster  :'(

Actually, now I'm kind of curious, too.
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Generally, when one is conducting an experiment, it is worth noting that the observers went insane, killed each other, and then rose from the dead.
It's like DF inhaled a peanut.
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