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Author Topic: Benevolent Ghost  (Read 30693 times)

Button

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Re: Benevolent Ghost
« Reply #15 on: June 24, 2013, 09:32:20 am »

The Hunting labor might be interesting.
Hunting usually requires a crossbow, quiver, and bolts?  Unless Urist has some ghostly equipment, I'm not sure if it would work.
If it does, then you can create a friendly invincible defence force.

I'll give it a shot. 8). We've established that ghosts can pick up*, carry and use meat in the service of a job; they might be able to do the same for weapons.

* May involve teleportation or spontaneous generation
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Re: Benevolent Ghost
« Reply #16 on: June 24, 2013, 09:35:08 am »

Could you please share the save? This looks like something that the community in general would be interested in weaponizing investigating.

Also, have you checked out legends mode? There might be some interesting information in there.
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Re: Benevolent Ghost
« Reply #17 on: June 24, 2013, 09:38:56 am »

you said you enabled a job for him, can you do that in-game or does it require DFhack or Therapist?
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Mr S

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Re: Benevolent Ghost
« Reply #18 on: June 24, 2013, 09:51:33 am »

I'm thinking hunting equipment may be difficult.  I say that, because the hunting equipment is equipped, rather than carried.

Carried, in the course of a job, is a very odd matter.  As you may know, dwarfs can carry an iron minecart full of magma without burning their hands, because carried items exist in a quantum disbelief bubble.  It appears that this is the case for items carried for any job (the same does not apply to contaminants, however.  See: kitten rot v PPE).  The meat item for the Tame Wild Animal job is therefore carried by the animal trainer.

Ghostly dwarfs do not have any inventory.  Everything drops when they die.  They should not be able to pick up any new equipment.  I do suppose there may be an edge case where a ghost grapples a weapon from somebody's hands, but I won't speculate on the feasability of that.

What I REALLY want to see, is if the intestines in question really did come from the butcher shop, or if he took them directly from a donor animal in the field!  (OK, that won't happen, but the idea is awesome!)
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Button

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Re: Benevolent Ghost
« Reply #19 on: June 24, 2013, 11:29:43 am »

Could you please share the save? This looks like something that the community in general would be interested in weaponizing investigating.

Also, have you checked out legends mode? There might be some interesting information in there.

Save uploaded: http://dffd.wimbli.com/file.php?id=7781 . This is from a few months before the events I describe in this post.

I haven't checked legends mode, but he looks like a standard randomly-generated dwarf to me.

you said you enabled a job for him, can you do that in-game or does it require DFhack or Therapist?

Therapist. In-game I don't have access to his jobs or any control over him. However, I did not enable anything on him before observing this behavior: he happened to have animal training enabled at the time of death.

What I REALLY want to see, is if the intestines in question really did come from the butcher shop, or if he took them directly from a donor animal in the field!  (OK, that won't happen, but the idea is awesome!)

Wild boar reverted and here is my report:

Tekkud is using a cat intestines to tame the wild boar. He was carrying the meat when he appeared on the screen, in the stairwell, and then ran ~20 Urists to the boar cage, following the open corridor even though phasing through a wall would have been quicker at one point. Therefore I am inclined to believe that ghosts must obey the laws of pathing while carrying physical objects.

I do have live cats, but none have gone missing.

The war dogs are following him.

When he was done re-taming the wild boar he flew off through a wall and has now disappeared from the units screen. The dogs are standing around where he used to be. Therapist says he has picked up a new "Train War Animal" job.

He has reappeared in a wall next to a training zone.

A non-war dog has just emerged from the stairwell and is running to him. The war dogs followed shortly after (they were farther away, so I assume they left at the same time).

Tekkud moved into the training zone when he began to train the new dog.

Armok dammit, another goblin ambush.

Edited to add: Another boar reverted to a wild state and this time I was able to watch Tekkud fly to the meat stockpile, pick up another piece of meat, and run it up to the boar cage from start to finish. Source confirmed!
« Last Edit: June 24, 2013, 11:47:39 am by Button »
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coldmonkey

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Re: Benevolent Ghost
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2013, 11:45:35 am »

Cage traps, perhaps?
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Re: Benevolent Ghost
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2013, 12:02:05 pm »

Update: Tekkud is gaining skill. He is now at 2550/2600 in animal training.

He has not attempted to fish or hunt yet.

He has taken a couple breaks to haunt the farms. Not sure why the farms, since he never saw them in life, but whatever.
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skyte100

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Re: Benevolent Ghost
« Reply #22 on: June 24, 2013, 12:07:34 pm »

Maybe he detests plump helmets?
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Sutremaine

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Re: Benevolent Ghost
« Reply #23 on: June 24, 2013, 12:34:31 pm »

What kind of ghost is he?
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Re: Benevolent Ghost
« Reply #24 on: June 24, 2013, 12:54:29 pm »

What kind of ghost is he?

Restless haunt.

It says he'll trouble past acquaintances and relatives, but his entire migration wave was wiped out, sooo
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Re: Benevolent Ghost
« Reply #25 on: June 24, 2013, 02:04:01 pm »

No rest for the wicked.  :D
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Re: Benevolent Ghost
« Reply #26 on: June 24, 2013, 05:30:41 pm »

Actually, that might be the secret sauce.

Dwarf haunt has no-one to haunt, so the default "labor" for the ghost can't complete, forcing the ai to perform another task?

Should be easy enough to test. Fresh migrant wave, assign labors using therapist while the game remains paused. Kill the dwarves with a simulated cave-in using dfhack to spawn obsidian floors over their heads.

When the ghosts show up, they should 1) have no friends or aquantences, and 2) have no family. If that is what triggers friendly ghosts, it should then be readily aparent. I could see this being a forced "job", (haunt the living), and if it can't be accomplished (no target), the game reverting to the default AI package.

Might test this next migrant wave.



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Re: Benevolent Ghost
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2013, 08:36:17 am »

Actually, that might be the secret sauce.

Dwarf haunt has no-one to haunt, so the default "labor" for the ghost can't complete, forcing the ai to perform another task?

Should be easy enough to test. Fresh migrant wave, assign labors using therapist while the game remains paused. Kill the dwarves with a simulated cave-in using dfhack to spawn obsidian floors over their heads.

When the ghosts show up, they should 1) have no friends or aquantences, and 2) have no family. If that is what triggers friendly ghosts, it should then be readily aparent. I could see this being a forced "job", (haunt the living), and if it can't be accomplished (no target), the game reverting to the default AI package.

Might test this next migrant wave.

That's a good idea, but someone else might need to test it since my animals should be trained by the time more migrants show up, and my embark is out of fish somehow, even though I can see lungfish crawling around. (Can you catch lungfish in animal traps? That would be hilarious.)

Actually, come to think of it, isn't there a bug where enabled labors with skill below 1 are deprioritized to the point where dwarves would rather clean than take a job? So if it's a job priority bug that's causing friendly ghosts, it might only occur on ghosts of those who had at least 1 skill in a ghost-appropriate labor. (I've yet to see Tekkud try to fish - the "there are no fish" message came from a migrant I hadn't gotten around to turning it off on yet.)

I'm also going to try enabling medical labors on Tekkud, since they might have roughly the same structure as animal training (creature generates job, job is just hauling an item and interacting with a creature). Hopefully the wounded won't tantrum tooo badly at being treated by a ghost...
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Re: Benevolent Ghost
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2013, 06:50:59 pm »

Update: Tekkud is gaining skill. He is now at 2550/2600 in animal training.

Put a tame animal job on repeat and he'll tame the same animal over and over again. If you're going to have a Ghostly Animal Tamer, it might as well be a Legendary Ghostly Animal Tamer.
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wierd

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Re: Benevolent Ghost
« Reply #29 on: June 25, 2013, 06:55:45 pm »

......

If the dwarf dies before mooding, and becomes "useful haunt", can the ghost mood?
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