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Author Topic: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)  (Read 500706 times)

Dibujor

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Re: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)
« Reply #240 on: May 23, 2015, 04:01:51 am »
I was also leaning a bit to #2 (although I also like #1). #1 is almost the original spacefox wall but with that crenelation in the middle, but perhaps you're right and the engravings make them excesively noisy. You can just do so much with 16 pixels. #3 was my form to convey the simplicity of the original spacefox walls with a bit more perspective. #2 is perhaps the best compromise, I actually really like how that turned out (as they were originaly intended for my 24x set). They give the walls a soft and heavy 3d look perfect for spacefox imho, and look as if they can be made out of rock, giant gem blocks... or jelly ;D. Until I actually see it in game I canˇt be sure but I'm pretty sure it needs a bit more contrast, I picked the colors from the original spacefox wall to maintain the feel but from DwarfMockup it seems it needs a bit more difference between planes.

 I guess whatever walls Leocean and people like the most. I have them done and tiled so I can throw a tileset in no time with any of those variants in place
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 04:16:03 am by Dibujor »
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LeoCean

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Re: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)
« Reply #241 on: May 23, 2015, 05:24:19 am »
#3 would look better if it had those shadings without the engravings that #2 has (I knew it was something that didn't make sense to me), I think all you'd need to do is have a lighter grey to pull off the engravings in #3 without it showing while it's unengraved.

 I feel like #1 would look better without the black borders, at least on the outer side where the pitch black is, but I feel like it'll look quite a bit nicer to just get rid of that black border from both sides and expand the middle perhaps. Maybe I'm wrong though it does seem like spacefox uses that, but looking at #2 you get the feeling like that's a determent in #1.

I'd at least like to have those walls anyway, just to have.
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Dibujor

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Re: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)
« Reply #242 on: May 23, 2015, 07:02:15 pm »
Well, I've been playing a bit more with the designs, and made some proper in-game screenshots, using the object testing arena (as this is just for walls didn't need much more). Size is supposed to be 100% no zoom one way or another.

Wall #1

1.1 is the original wall, lines and all.
1.2 is the same wall without dark outlines, following LeoCean suggestion, and with the middle expanded and finally
1.3 is the same with the contrast bumped a bit. Although this last one is interesting, I think it's still a bit bland, even with the bumped contrast.

Think the original is the best of these three and, surprisingly, is a lot less noisy once in-game (granted those are regular smooth/constructed walls and we can't see the engraved effect, but still)

LeoCean, you really like this wall don't you? ;). Don't worry, I'll send it to you regardless.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wall #2

Same as before, normal and bumped contrast versions. I like this wall in game even more than before. Perhaps it could use even a bit more contrast?. An even lighter gray in the north part of the wall, and a darker grey in the bottom part of the wall that touches the floor, just a line to separate it a bit from the floor.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Wall #3

I put the image here just for completion. Again as per LeoCean suggestion I eliminated the base "engravings" plus I bumped the contrast a bit over the original. Even though I like them, I think these walls would begin to shine at bigger tile sizes, were you can add a bit more detail

Spoiler (click to show/hide)


Finally

The two I consider (imho) to be the best:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)


One thing I noticed though is that, for the fortifications, it uses the same tile as for the 4 way crossway. While in some cases it can look good, that's not always the case. And even more, it seems to be one unused tile wall block in the tilesets. I designed it specifically to be the fortifications. Even more, those round wall ends look horrible. Is it possible to override a new design intead of that round thing? (I know that some time ago the wall ends were simple square blocks, and that looked much better.

In this image you can see what I mean, I'd like the fortifications to use the tile inside the green rectangle, and not the crossway inside the red one (for the screenshot I changed the tiles places inside the tileset)

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
« Last Edit: May 23, 2015, 07:05:35 pm by Dibujor »
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LeoCean

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Re: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)
« Reply #243 on: May 23, 2015, 08:14:48 pm »
I agree it doesn't turn out like I hoped, the final ones are the best, but I'm kind of in-between on the darker shade for wall #2 and the lighter shade.

FeatureWallSmoothLRUD <-- As an example would be the tiletype, if you want to change the +, but it'd be easier to change the fortification.

StoneFortification <-- also works though. You'd have to do each type but that's pretty easy. If you use


Spoiler: This (click to show/hide)
As an example. Honestly I'd stick to overriding the fortification as it's a lot less work. This example just needs to get rid of the StairUD and use Fortification instead. [OVERRIDE:88(tile in the main tileset):T:StoneStairUD:3(name of the tileset or order it is loaded/ put into the overrides):88(new position of the "tile" in the override tileset)] 0 and 1 is the text and the main tileset respectfully, 2 is usually mephs item overrides. Then 3 would be mine. Using names instead of numbers is probably a better idea though.

Spoiler: Twbt readme  (no new file types were added) (click to show/hide)
May be helpful.

For #3 I meant the #2 wall without engravings. I think so anyways.

#Edit: Fixed the twbt readme link. thanks PeridexisErrant for notifying me lol.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 12:02:37 pm by LeoCean »
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DragonDePlatino

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Re: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)
« Reply #244 on: May 23, 2015, 09:17:11 pm »
Between your two choices, I like 1.1 the most. It's a little flat, but that helps the walls blend with the pillars. And about that...

Quote from: Dibujor on May 23, 2015, 07:02:15 pm
One thing I noticed though is that, for the fortifications, it uses the same tile as for the 4 way crossway. While in some cases it can look good, that's not always the case. And even more, it seems to be one unused tile wall block in the tilesets. I designed it specifically to be the fortifications. Even more, those round wall ends look horrible. Is it possible to override a new design intead of that round thing? (I know that some time ago the wall ends were simple square blocks, and that looked much better.

Agreed. It's reasons like this I stay away from editing the tileset, and I do everything via overrides.

Spoiler: Tile Overrides (click to show/hide)

There's 'yer tile overrides and the original tiles on the right. I haven't tried this yet, but if you wanted to change the fortifications or pillars for walls, theoretically you'd do something like this:

[OVERRIDE:Tile:T:Type:Tileset:NewTile]
[OVERRIDE:79:T:ConstructedPillar:(A Tileset file):(Location of tile in file)]
[OVERRIDE:79:T:ConstructedFortification:(A Tileset file):(Location of tile in file)]
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Meph

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Re: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)
« Reply #245 on: May 24, 2015, 01:06:44 am »
Quote
Is it possible to override a new design intead of that round thing? (I know that some time ago the wall ends were simple square blocks, and that looked much better.
That would be the pillar tile, which you can find in data/init/init.txt, together with some other random graphic settings like sky, chasms, trees and tracks.
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DragonDePlatino

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Re: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)
« Reply #246 on: May 24, 2015, 01:25:39 am »
Ah, don't you mean d_init.txt? And I'm afraid the document in question won't let you change constructed walls. Just the aforementioned sky, chasms, trees and tracks. You gotta do overrides if you want to change anything else.

By the way, while it's still on my mind, what is the difference between OpenSpace, Chasm and Void? And what tiles are used for each? Those are pretty much the only things I'm not sure on in my tile override list.
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Max™

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Re: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)
« Reply #247 on: May 24, 2015, 01:29:39 am »
You use one for outdoors stuff like the sky around a tall tower, one for unrevealed tiles below ground, and one for indoors stuff where you can't see the ground I think. I also like the 2.2 version walls, the engravings look cool.
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Dibujor

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Re: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)
« Reply #248 on: May 24, 2015, 07:46:32 am »
Quote from: LeoCean on May 23, 2015, 08:14:48 pm
For #3 I meant the #2 wall without engravings. I think so anyways.

Oh, I though you meant #3 but without those dark grey engravings in the bottom walls


Quote from: DragonDePlatino on May 23, 2015, 09:17:11 pm
Between your two choices, I like 1.1 the most. It's a little flat, but that helps the walls blend with the pillars.

Yes, 1.1 is almost exactly the original spacefox walls with a bit more detail like the crenelation. Perspective for all 2 is the same, top oblique (I think?) where you see the part of the wall that is attached to the ground only in the front. In 2 the angle is a bit lower as you can see more wall under. If you can override the pillars there's no problem then as I can make it specifically for the walls. I selected what I liked the most but it's not my choice to make as it's not my pack. Apart from those I selected do you like any other version?

Quote from: DragonDePlatino on May 23, 2015, 09:17:11 pm
Agreed. It's reasons like this I stay away from editing the tileset, and I do everything via overrides.

Yeah, but unless you use ascii as part of your tileset you have to have a basic graphic tileset for spacefox, in case anyone don't use twbt. In Gemset it blends nicely though

Quote from: LeoCean on May 23, 2015, 08:14:48 pm
I agree it doesn't turn out like I hoped, the final ones are the best, but I'm kind of in-between on the darker shade for wall #2 and the lighter shade.

FeatureWallSmoothLRUD <-- As an example would be the tiletype, if you want to change the +, but it'd be easier to change the fortification.

StoneFortification <-- also works though. You'd have to do each type but that's pretty easy. If you use

Honestly I'd stick to overriding the fortification as it's a lot less work. This example just needs to get rid of the StairUD and use Fortification instead. [OVERRIDE:88(tile in the main tileset):T:StoneStairUD:3(name of the tileset or order it is loaded/ put into the overrides):88(new position of the "tile" in the override tileset)] 0 and 1 is the text and the main tileset respectfully, 2 is usually mephs item overrides. Then 3 would be mine. Using names instead of numbers is probably a better idea though.

Quote from: DragonDePlatino on May 23, 2015, 09:17:11 pm
There's 'yer tile overrides and the original tiles on the right. I haven't tried this yet, but if you wanted to change the fortifications or pillars for walls, theoretically you'd do something like this:

[OVERRIDE:Tile:T:Type:Tileset:NewTile]
[OVERRIDE:79:T:ConstructedPillar:(A Tileset file):(Location of tile in file)]
[OVERRIDE:79:T:ConstructedFortification:(A Tileset file):(Location of tile in file)]

Woah! you two got me there. I really need to begin reading how this works, as I understood only half of what you said. However I'm really new to this (the game, the modding and pixel art itself) and if I begin to dig into that I know I'll obsses over tiles, numbers, overrides, places... I've read enough of how twbt works to know that it'll need me to focus exclusively on it for some time. For now I better stick to graphics until I have all the tiles made, then I'll make the "code". For now it's enough for me knowing if a tile can be overriden or not in order to make the design, then I'll "put them in place". You two have explained the basics of how it works pretty well and it seems "easy" enough, the difficult part being to find what the tile you want to override is called (thanks for all that names and places DragondePlatino) Which is difficult in and on itself, there's A LOT of names. I don't now why but I had my things messed up and thought for overrides you'd use a coordinate system akin to the graphics for races and my mind begun to spin. Now, absolute tile number is a lot easier.

Quote from: Meph on May 24, 2015, 01:06:44 am
That would be the pillar tile, which you can find in data/init/init.txt, together with some other random graphic settings like sky, chasms, trees and tracks.
Thanks!

Quote from: DragonDePlatino on May 24, 2015, 01:25:39 am
Ah, don't you mean d_init.txt? And I'm afraid the document in question won't let you change constructed walls. Just the aforementioned sky, chasms, trees and tracks. You gotta do overrides if you want to change anything else.

So you can do it either way?, changing the d-init.txt or via overrides? Also overrides help you keep track of what you change without touching the (raws? are called) so doing it in a "non destructive" manner? And staying organized making different override files for different things (walls & ground, objects, etc). I like that approach.  As you can see I have almost no idea what I'm talking about here, so I should keep my mouth shut.

Quote from: Max™ on May 24, 2015, 01:29:39 am
I also like the 2.2 version walls, the engravings look cool.

:D I really like them both. So now it's LeoCean's call which one to put (if any) into spacefox.

My original intention was to "complete" spacefox with "spacefox style" tiles , including the races, animals and objects it uses from other packs (phoebus, Meph,etc). Now I want to complete it in certain areas of the basic tileset I thought it was lacking, before going into my own 24x graphic pack in which I'll try to "graphic" as much things as I can (DragondePlatino, I'm afraid you're making my life much easier for me in the future with the work you're doing in Gemset :D). Then I'll have to learn all this if I want to finish it, but it'll take time as this is certainly a really complex game to graphically mod (if you're a completionist). A couple weeks ago I have never touched pixel art, nor had I played DF, and now between spacefox and my pack I've made hundreds of tiles, and enjoyed it a lot more than I should.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 07:57:03 am by Dibujor »
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LeoCean

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Re: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)
« Reply #249 on: May 24, 2015, 11:49:35 am »
Quote from: DragonDePlatino on May 24, 2015, 01:25:39 am
Ah, don't you mean d_init.txt? And I'm afraid the document in question won't let you change constructed walls. Just the aforementioned sky, chasms, trees and tracks. You gotta do overrides if you want to change anything else.

By the way, while it's still on my mind, what is the difference between OpenSpace, Chasm and Void? And what tiles are used for each? Those are pretty much the only things I'm not sure on in my tile override list.

This is pretty much what that is.
Code: (this) [Select]
[SKY:39:3:0:0] *was SKY:178:3:0:0 <--- Openspace

As above, for inside/subterranean areas.

[CHASM:0:0:0:1] *was CHASM:250:0:0:1 <--- Chasm

the stuff after the first name:0: is either shading/shadows or color. I think it's color though, it's been over a year since I messed with that though.
From d_init. The void is likely all that black space that isn't explored. I changed that stuff in spacefox, albeit twbt makes it pretty useless. It makes a difference though if you actually notice it.

#edit: Now I remember in some packs the sky shows up as little dots while the further you go it turns solid right? So chasm is what you get when you go even further away/ down. It may actually be the other way because 250 is the little dots, so I think it is the other way.

Quote
:D I really like them both. So now it's LeoCean's call which one to put (if any) into spacefox.

My original intention was to "complete" spacefox with "spacefox style" tiles , including the races, animals and objects it uses from other packs (phoebus, Meph,etc). Now I want to complete it in certain areas of the basic tileset I thought it was lacking, before going into my own 24x graphic pack in which I'll try to "graphic" as much things as I can (DragondePlatino, I'm afraid you're making my life much easier for me in the future with the work you're doing in Gemset :D). Then I'll have to learn all this if I want to finish it, but it'll take time as this is certainly a really complex game to graphically mod (if you're a completionist). A couple weeks ago I have never touched pixel art, nor had I played DF, and now between spacefox and my pack I've made hundreds of tiles, and enjoyed it a lot more than I should.

I'd honestly like to put both in, as overrides probably. I don't know if I'd want to hit the fans of the old walls by just replacing them out of the blue and I'll have to check what it does to the other things those walls use. However overriding the walls is super easy now with the info I gleamed from the last few pages that Dragon posted and in gemset. Overriding stuff is way less of a hassle than messing with the tileset, but that's because I'm so use to playing with the code and mifki makes things pretty understandable.

Don't bother creating creatures for the 16x set for spacefox, there's not enough room to make things look decent enough in 16x compared to 24x or more. Though if you want to mess with the dwarves/ goblins/ elves/ kobolds/ humans I'd be super happy. I really dislike looking at baby dwarves.. (the dwarves, CAN'T they have hair....) Honestly the main tileset is what separates most named packs, as most of the creatures besides the races are all the same and the dwarves are the only real constant difference, unless it's acii, then who cares. The main hardpoint in doing a 24x set for spacefox is what's the point if the creatures aren't 24x also.

Is there any info in the dwarf fortress wiki about overrides and the like? I feel like if we put the knowledge that we have about twbt and it's overrides it'd make it easier for people to edit and create stuff for it (maybe not the pixel art). Especially if someone gets most of the code, like all of the workshops and put's that code in there  ;)  ;), though seriously anyone have that. (damn I'm lazy it'd only take a few hours/days depending how much I want to spend on it, and here I am going to read a novel instead)
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Meph

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Re: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)
« Reply #250 on: May 24, 2015, 12:14:26 pm »
I wrote this::

Quote
Here an example for custom buildings. This only works with the ones you have access to in the raws. No idea if Mifki has done anything in the meantime to support vanilla workshops that are hardcoded: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138754.msg5530509#msg5530509

I also wrote a how-to/manual for using Twbt: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=138754.msg5411475#msg5411475

But there is nothing on the wiki about Twbt
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DragonDePlatino

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Re: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)
« Reply #251 on: May 24, 2015, 12:20:43 pm »
Quote from: Dibujor on May 24, 2015, 07:46:32 am
Apart from those I selected do you like any other version?

Other than that, I'm particularly fond of 2.2. If it weren't for the janky pillar tiles, that would be my first choice.

Quote from: Dibujor on May 24, 2015, 07:46:32 am
My original intention was to "complete" spacefox with "spacefox style" tiles , including the races, animals and objects it uses from other packs (phoebus, Meph,etc).

Niiice! If that's your end-goal, I'd make Spacefox-style race graphics and domestic sprites your first priority. Those are the critters you see the most, and it'd really fix most of the style clash if dogs had big heads and nub legs like the dwarves.

Quote from: LeoCean on May 24, 2015, 11:49:35 am
This is pretty much what that is.
Code: (this) [Select]
[SKY:39:3:0:0] *was SKY:178:3:0:0 <--- Openspace

As above, for inside/subterranean areas.

[CHASM:0:0:0:1] *was CHASM:250:0:0:1 <--- Chasm

the stuff after the first name:0: is either shading/shadows or color. I think it's color though, it's been over a year since I messed with that though.

Well, not exactly...Toady uses some weird names for the tiles in d_init.txt, and I wouldn't even say they're necessarily correct. I'm 100% positive that OpenSpace are the dots/checkerboard you see in the sky and chasms are the octothorpe used for pits. I've successfully overwritten both but I have yet to successfully override the void tiles. Actually, now that I think about it...maybe I did? Those tiles have black as the foreground and background color so maybe I just couldn't see the override.

Quote from: LeoCean on May 24, 2015, 11:49:35 am
Is there any info in the dwarf fortress wiki about overrides and the like? I feel like if we put the knowledge that we have about twbt and it's overrides it'd make it easier for people to edit and create stuff for it (maybe not the pixel art). Especially if someone gets most of the code, like all of the workshops and put's that code in there  ;)  ;), though seriously anyone have that. (damn I'm lazy it'd only take a few hours/days depending how much I want to spend on it, and here I am going to read a novel instead)

I don't think that'll be necessary. I'll be posting a little something-something to the GemSet topic later today that will make item overrides a lot easier. ;)
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LeoCean

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Re: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)
« Reply #252 on: May 24, 2015, 01:34:04 pm »
Honestly I don't know why spacefox uses that tile as a pillar now that I think about it. It's not good... Clearly I didn't do it.  :-X I'm pretty sure it was like that before I stepped in (#It was I checked). I don't really care about 40.24 though so I'm not changing it till the next dwarf fortress release.  Plus we need that gelder and other stuff that all the tilesets are missing. Those aren't hard to make and the tilepage has plenty of room to add them.

Maybe PeridexisErrant can switch the pillar tile to 199 or 206 in d_init if he updates the starter pack again, which makes more sense and doesn't look as ridiculous (I think when I went to change it before I changed the actual tile in the tileset which had effected the tree pillars/ trunk interior). I clearly didn't bother to care to notice how bad the pillars looked till you mentioned that. Hmm for some reason I thought changing pillars changes the tree stumps but at least on the 40.13 test I just did it didn't. Idk, 199 looks nice, 206 isn't bad either though. If Fricy sees this post, he may change the spacefox one. I really should update my versions link with the gelder and stuff that's missing.
 
Races definitely would be nice because come the next version fortresses will likely have multiple races plus animal men. So if those could be better upgraded that'd be awesome.

Previously spacefox used the Afro cat/dog. The dog looks decent I don't know why I switched that one out besides the phoebus wardog looks cool. I did meant to eventually create better ones. The cat would make a good mouse/ rat. I think afro designed it that way because he thought of them as rats in dwarf fortress with their infestations.
« Last Edit: May 24, 2015, 01:42:46 pm by LeoCean »
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fricy

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Re: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)
« Reply #253 on: May 24, 2015, 02:00:32 pm »
Quote from: LeoCean on May 24, 2015, 01:34:04 pm
Plus we need that gelder and other stuff that all the tilesets are missing. Those aren't hard to make and the tilepage has plenty of room to add them.
I already "hacked" together a sprite for a gelder some time ago, so that's there.
As for the pillar: 206 could work, but let's wait what Dibujor puts together, I like what I see so far, voting for 2.1 or 2.2.
CHASM: Are these still in the game? I thought chasms were retired when the z-levels were added to the game.
And finally: +1 for domestic spacefox animals. Never mind the rest, but those'd be great.
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Max™

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Re: Spacefox 16x16 Graphic and Tileset (Updated 1/8/2013)
« Reply #254 on: May 24, 2015, 02:49:31 pm »
I've been confusing the heck out of myself because I got used to the CLA animals and when I slapped gemset in I was like "OH HOLY GOD WHAT THE HELL IS THAT CHASING ME... oh it's a cat."
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