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Author Topic: I'm going to hell - how & why my dwarfs now kill their own babies  (Read 16422 times)

dresdor

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Re: I'm going to hell - how & why my dwarfs now kill their own babies
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2013, 07:05:38 am »

That is hilarious! I was laughing the whole time I was reading it!

This just proves that Dwarf Fortress is a tool for tracking sociopaths like us.

wierd

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Re: I'm going to hell - how & why my dwarfs now kill their own babies
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2013, 08:50:28 am »

Oh, this is sublime!

I could totally use this with my eugenics research!
Dwarven abortions for everyone!
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McDonald

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Re: I'm going to hell - how & why my dwarfs now kill their own babies
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2013, 09:37:30 am »

It's a perfect time to say "You monster". (Got the reference? ;))
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ddonohu2

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Re: I'm going to hell - how & why my dwarfs now kill their own babies
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2013, 02:10:27 pm »

While I believe many of the problems you have with children can be solved using burrows I applaud your contribution to dwarfish knowledge.
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wierd

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Re: I'm going to hell - how & why my dwarfs now kill their own babies
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2013, 03:55:30 pm »

Burrow restrictions don't solve the problems of "mooding children" who default to stone moods, nor does it fix issues from poor breeding.

The former needs you to abuse therapist, and the latter requires culling.
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Necromunger

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Re: I'm going to hell - how & why my dwarfs now kill their own babies
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2013, 07:37:42 pm »

As a dad, you guys are fucked =P.
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Maw

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Re: I'm going to hell - how & why my dwarfs now kill their own babies
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2013, 08:18:20 pm »

As a dad, you guys are fucked =P.

... but as a DF player, well developed !Science!.
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wierd

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Re: I'm going to hell - how & why my dwarfs now kill their own babies
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2013, 08:46:09 pm »


No so serious reply:

"It's a game, Yo! :P Lighten up!"

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Necromunger

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Re: I'm going to hell - how & why my dwarfs now kill their own babies
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2013, 03:37:09 am »

I actually don't agree with that wall of text.

"All I really want from people who have kids is that they be aware that while their reactions to certain stimuli involving children (and simulated children) are perfectly natural, they are NOT "perfectly rational"

Its rational to continue the existence of our species.
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Larix

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Re: I'm going to hell - how & why my dwarfs now kill their own babies
« Reply #25 on: August 13, 2013, 05:28:47 am »

Apropos nothing in particular, is there a way in the controls to set a thread to 'ignore'? I can't find it.

I'm not sure i'd actually _want_ to ignore threads like this one. If nothing else, it's a good way to remind myself how bile tastes.
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wierd

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Re: I'm going to hell - how & why my dwarfs now kill their own babies
« Reply #26 on: August 13, 2013, 06:19:01 am »

Last I checked, the human race was in greater peril of OVER population, than from UNDER population. What with there being 7+ billion people on the planet, and rising daily, coupled with looming shortages of fresh water supplies, changing climate conditions on a global scale, rampant deforestation of vital carbon sinks to make inefficient farmland that only lasts a few years before going barren, and other such looming disasters. In the greater scheme of things, an individual human life really does not contribute heavily to the genetic integrity of the species, given the prevailing circumstances.  The human race would be better served by radically REDUCING its global footprint, not capitulating to the preprogrammed reproductive instinct. (But that's a rather unpopular opinion, with a rather sordid history, best not discussed lightly. )

Rather, I would say people tend to have a reproductive imperative to spread THEIR genetic lineage. Not necessarily to sustain or ensure the viability of the human race as a whole. This impulse is not rational, as it seeks to satisfy short term desires over longer term necessities, which are clearly demonstrable to all.  If the impetus is the survival and greater sustainability of the human race, then willful abstinence from reproduction from a sizeable portion of the current population is clearly indicated. That this does not happen, and that humans in general continue to reproduce at a geometric rate is QED that the impulse is not rationally based. (There ARE substantial reductions in the rate of reproduction in highly developed countries, but this could simply be because of other stressing factors that discourage procreation. Such as financial issues, lack of family time, and other such concerns, in addition to the improved educational background that consistently has shown to influence reproduction rates in human populations.)

Understanding that reproduction is necessary for a species is only part of being rational about it. Understanding if one should personally be the one reproducing, and evaluating that with actual care, is the other half.  For instance-- In addition to not really having the impulse to do so anyway, I further realize I should not be such a contributor; I lost at the genetic lottery pretty badly, and inherited a laundry list of quite improbable genetic defects/anomalies. Might have something to do with dad being radioactive, and mom being in her late 30s when she conceived me. i'm not deformed or anything, but I AM packing some nasty genetic material, as does my sister. (I have genetically heritable lipomas, my sister has S Protien deficiency (affects 1% of 1% of the human population! Jackpot on the suck-o-meter. It causes your blood to clot inside your veins for no reason. She has to take blood thinners to mitigate her risk of deep tissue thrombosis and strokes. This means I have at least a 25% chance of having the same disorder, since my sister is autosomal true for the gene, having inherited two defective s protien genes, from both parents), I am at very high hereditary risk for developing diabetes and other blood sugar regulation problems, high risk of developing blood iron toxicity, since my dad has full blown hemochromatosis (a somewhat rare disorder where the body sequesters iron, until it reaches toxic levels) a pronounced history of several noteworthy cancers in the family, You get the idea. I consider it fortunate that I dont experience sexual attraction. Not that it matters, as there is a good chance I am sterile anyway. My older brother is genetically incapable of producing sperm cells, you understand. ) The sensible and rational thing for me to do, is to simply abstain from having children. If at some point in my life, I find myself desiring a child, there are plenty of non-procreative solutions, such as adoption.

That isnt even getting at the real point of that single line you took exception to though.

As pointed out in the linked wikipedia article, BOTH parents undergo heightened neurogenesis in the amygdala and other parts of the limbic system, in response to and in association with, caring for a child. This is the portion of the brain implicated in automatic reflexes, fight/flight responses, and other "not actively planned", "Impulsive" reactions and behaviors. In humans, this is ALSO accompanied by REDUCTION in the neurogenesis of neuronal tissues in the prefrontal cortex. This isnt to say you get dumber from having kids (though there is some dubious evidence one could claim to support that, it requires accepting that IQ scores actually mean something, which I have found in practice to not be substantiated.) it simply means that your ability to inhibit emotional reactions is reduced by having and caring for children, while at the same time, the intensity with which you experience emotions increases at the same time. That does not bode well for rational thought, which requires the inhibitory reaction to take place. Those findings are pretty well supported by repeated observation of neurological changes and fMRI scans of couples who volunteered for study leading up to, during, and after their first pregnancy. Having children really DOES permanently alter the way your brain is wired, in favor of emotional, and impulsive decision making. It is simply a fact. You can dislike that all you want, but that is what the medical literature has reported.

whether or not you decide to PERMIT yourself to succumb to that mechanism or not, is another matter entirely. Parenthood predisposes you to irrational decision making. It does not necessarily mean it unerringly causes you to become irrational. Being open and honest about this predisposition and being more mindful about the nature of your decision making is rational, in light of these findings. Denial is not rational.




 
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: I'm going to hell - how & why my dwarfs now kill their own babies
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2013, 06:25:39 am »

Ow, my siege weapons cannot overcome that wall of texts.


Can we go back to talking about ways to force idiotic dwarves to crush their babies with minecarts?
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Ravendarksky

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Re: I'm going to hell - how & why my dwarfs now kill their own babies
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2013, 06:29:17 am »

oh for goodness sakes.

It's a computer game!

I myself have a 10 month old baby and I'm the OP.

This just happens to be the most efficient and effective way to dispose of dwarfen babies whom I don't want for the various reasons stated in the original post.

It's a computer game and this is no different from all the other random senseless acts which go on in almost every game. Dwarf fortress is a fairly brutal game, if you are going to empathize towards the creatures in it, You'll end up feeling bad most of the time.
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Sutremaine

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Re: I'm going to hell - how & why my dwarfs now kill their own babies
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2013, 06:41:34 am »

This just happens to be the most efficient and effective way to dispose of dwarfen babies whom I don't want for the various reasons stated in the original post.
The second-most efficient. The most efficient would be to set the child cap to zero.
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