Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 173 174 [175] 176 177 ... 276

Author Topic: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress  (Read 799369 times)

Broseph Stalin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dabbling Surgeon, Proficient Butcher.
    • View Profile
Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2610 on: August 07, 2017, 11:47:47 am »

After watching 2 hours of it, it seems fun, if a little limited gameplay wise. Love that you can send raids and everything though.
How is it limited gameplay wise?

StagnantSoul

  • Bay Watcher
  • "Player has withdrawn from society!"
    • View Profile
Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2611 on: August 07, 2017, 11:57:51 am »

After watching 2 hours of it, it seems fun, if a little limited gameplay wise. Love that you can send raids and everything though.
How is it limited gameplay wise?

No z-layers, only certain types of metal, hydration is somehow handled by eating meat, combat is rather simple, secluded to one area unless you want to divide your attention between two settlements with only half the manpower. Not saying those are making it a bad game, just they could be improved upon.

I was benchmarking it against DF, compared to other games it's huge.
Logged
Quote from: Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum
I threw night creature blood into a night creature's heart and she pulled it out and bled to death.
Quote from: Eric Blank
Places to jibber madly at each other, got it
Quote from: NJW2000
If any of them are made of fire, throw stuff, run, and think non-flammable thoughts.

Broseph Stalin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dabbling Surgeon, Proficient Butcher.
    • View Profile
Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2612 on: August 07, 2017, 12:53:39 pm »

No z-layers, only certain types of metal, hydration is somehow handled by eating meat, combat is rather simple, secluded to one area unless you want to divide your attention between two settlements with only half the manpower. Not saying those are making it a bad game, just they could be improved upon.

I was benchmarking it against DF, compared to other games it's huge.
I didn't take it as you bashing the game I'm just curious about other people's opinions about the systems.

I go back and forth on Z-layers, it would be cool and offer more room to get creative with colony design but the amount of shit it would add would probably destroy FPS. I don't really know about more metals, I like DF's complexity but so much of it ends up feeling wasted, what would you actually DO with more metals? In DF I usually just sigh, wish they were iron, silver, or gold.  I'll agree that securing and cleaning water would add an interesting element to a system that's pretty simplified.

What I have to disagree with is the thing about combat. There's certainly less detail to the anatomy of creatures but I think Rimworld Combat may have more to it than Dwarf Fortress. I mean, don't get me wrong I built a martial arts system around DF adventure mode but in Fortress mode it's just position your guys here with ranged or melee weapons and let them go on autopilot while the enemies zerg at you in the exact same way year after year. Rimworld has drop ships and proper sieges with enemies building siege weapons and if you want to stop them from hammering you with mortars you have to dig them out. There's also a lot of room to do combat stuff with non-combat systems, I once had a pacifist run out into the battlefield and place a table he was carrying so my guys had cover. There's no lava traps but you can draw enemies into a tunnel that you've heated to 100 C and then take them prisoner when the heatstroke sets in.

Radsoc

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2613 on: August 07, 2017, 12:57:56 pm »

DF is the better game, but they are not mutually exclusive. Different experiences. However, there things that are better in RimWorld, e.g. the medical system.
Logged
"The hand-mill gives you society with the feudal lord; the steam-mill society with the industrial capitalist."

"To punish the oppressors of humanity is clemency; to forgive them is cruelty. The severity of tyrants has barbarity for its principle; that of a republican government is founded on beneficence."

StagnantSoul

  • Bay Watcher
  • "Player has withdrawn from society!"
    • View Profile
Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2614 on: August 07, 2017, 01:18:54 pm »

No z-layers, only certain types of metal, hydration is somehow handled by eating meat, combat is rather simple, secluded to one area unless you want to divide your attention between two settlements with only half the manpower. Not saying those are making it a bad game, just they could be improved upon.

I was benchmarking it against DF, compared to other games it's huge.
I didn't take it as you bashing the game I'm just curious about other people's opinions about the systems.

I go back and forth on Z-layers, it would be cool and offer more room to get creative with colony design but the amount of shit it would add would probably destroy FPS. I don't really know about more metals, I like DF's complexity but so much of it ends up feeling wasted, what would you actually DO with more metals? In DF I usually just sigh, wish they were iron, silver, or gold.  I'll agree that securing and cleaning water would add an interesting element to a system that's pretty simplified.

What I have to disagree with is the thing about combat. There's certainly less detail to the anatomy of creatures but I think Rimworld Combat may have more to it than Dwarf Fortress. I mean, don't get me wrong I built a martial arts system around DF adventure mode but in Fortress mode it's just position your guys here with ranged or melee weapons and let them go on autopilot while the enemies zerg at you in the exact same way year after year. Rimworld has drop ships and proper sieges with enemies building siege weapons and if you want to stop them from hammering you with mortars you have to dig them out. There's also a lot of room to do combat stuff with non-combat systems, I once had a pacifist run out into the battlefield and place a table he was carrying so my guys had cover. There's no lava traps but you can draw enemies into a tunnel that you've heated to 100 C and then take them prisoner when the heatstroke sets in.

The strategy in the combat is leagues ahead of DF, whereas the 1+1=dead raider is well behind. I think Z-layers could make the combat even better, what with tactically placing soldiers in towers, windows of forts, pillboxes only accessible from inside your base, rope bridges connecting trees so men with rifles can be posted up there to harass the enemy, etc.

But if it keeps that framerate higher, it might be best to forgo it, as that's a major gimp to DF's enjoyment for a lot of people is FPS death. I had so many projects I had to abandon, like a fort where I built a hollow mountain in a flat plains our of stone mined from underground, but a fire imp lit two cavern layers ablaze so my fps hit 2 and I couldn't handle it. From what I've seen the game runs very well, that could just be because heavy gaming computer but it's definitely running faster than DF.

What I'd do with more metals is ammo types, different weights and resistances for armor, make pretty buildings, and certain trading partners want some differently. For example those primitives you can trade with want soft copper instead of steel they can't work, whereas the guys coming from space don't consider your bronze worth anything.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 01:20:53 pm by StagnantSoul »
Logged
Quote from: Cptn Kaladin Anrizlokum
I threw night creature blood into a night creature's heart and she pulled it out and bled to death.
Quote from: Eric Blank
Places to jibber madly at each other, got it
Quote from: NJW2000
If any of them are made of fire, throw stuff, run, and think non-flammable thoughts.

Radsoc

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2615 on: August 07, 2017, 01:29:46 pm »

I also like the fact that there are lights in RimWorld.

However, its physics simulation is very simplified, which is a bit problematic. Last time I played I made the following observation

"The lamp bulbs consume more energy than a heater, but produce less heat! If a bulb consumes 150W, and the heater 100W, the bulb produces more heat - but it does barely affect temperature in game. I would make bulbs 50W (or even less if LED), and heaters more than 1000W. "
https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/52980c/the_thermodynamics_of_rimworld/

But then of course some guy replied
"Ultimately, Rimworld isn't a game about physics. "

Booo.

Everything is physics. :P
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 01:39:06 pm by Radsoc »
Logged
"The hand-mill gives you society with the feudal lord; the steam-mill society with the industrial capitalist."

"To punish the oppressors of humanity is clemency; to forgive them is cruelty. The severity of tyrants has barbarity for its principle; that of a republican government is founded on beneficence."

Broseph Stalin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dabbling Surgeon, Proficient Butcher.
    • View Profile
Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2616 on: August 07, 2017, 01:41:01 pm »


The strategy in the combat is leagues ahead of DF, whereas the 1+1=dead raider is well behind. I think Z-layers could make the combat even better, what with tactically placing soldiers in towers, windows of forts, pillboxes only accessible from inside your base, rope bridges connecting trees so men with rifles can be posted up there to harass the enemy, etc.

But if it keeps that framerate higher, it might be best to forgo it, as that's a major gimp to DF's enjoyment for a lot of people is FPS death. I had so many projects I had to abandon, like a fort where I built a hollow mountain in a flat plains our of stone mined from underground, but a fire imp lit two cavern layers ablaze so my fps hit 2 and I couldn't handle it. From what I've seen the game runs very well, that could just be because heavy gaming computer but it's definitely running faster than DF.

What I'd do with more metals is ammo types, different weights and resistances for armor, make pretty buildings, and certain trading partners want some differently. For example those primitives you can trade with want soft copper instead of steel they can't work, whereas the guys coming from space don't consider your bronze worth anything.
The FPS is way better, I can't even imagine how many hours I've spent playing DF but I almost never have a fort last 5 years+ because after the FPS gets to a certain point you just get to play more game by making a new fort.

Now that you mention it, needing a source of copper to continue wiring your base might add something.
DF is the better game, but they are not mutually exclusive. Different experiences. However, there things that are better in RimWorld, e.g. the medical system.
I know the game is heavily DF inspired but the feel is just so different that I never really put them in the same category.

The medical system is way better, I love that I can control what quality of treatment people get and I love that there are decisions for me to make as a player. Someone gets shot in the arm, do you use that one glitter world medicine you've been saving for emergencies or do you chance it with a good doctor and herbal medicine? The arm got infected 80% with immunity 70%, do you continue treating and hope that they do well enough to make up the difference or do you hack off the arm before it's too late? Now they have a carcinoma, treat it or excise it? They have dementia, do you let them wander the map occasionally or lock them up for their own safety? Best Pawn has asthma, is it worth the mood penalty, medicine, and risk to hack up a raider for spare parts? Massive surgical fail, pawn has a torso scar that causes 102% pain, painstopper or euthanasia? Dwarven medicine has provided no small amount of entertainment but it's always at arms length.

Sanctume

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2617 on: August 07, 2017, 02:06:07 pm »

The mere fact that you can order a pawn diverts from DF gameplay.
Sure you can order a squad or dwarf to move to a location, but that's up to the dwarf if he has other needs such as socializing, eat, drink, or pickup equipment first. 

RW carves a small section of DF gameplay and tweak it to make it fun.  Has a bit more resource to focus on UI. 
While DF focuses on large vision architecture designs and adding to small part to make a truer emergent gameplay. 

I think the fun part in RW is the evolution from RTS and Colony building and attach some context story to the pawns.  It's not deep, but enough to make it work sometimes. 

Whereas DF remains a simulation and colony building.  The story context from the first 7 void dwarfs on hooks to a chosen Civ, and history from neighbors.  There are procedural created monsters created on the fly, as well as created during world-gen with history.



n9103

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
    • My Steam
Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2618 on: August 07, 2017, 04:31:31 pm »

Just wanted to put out there that there are a lot more active mods and modders for RimWorld than there are for DF, though they are definitely in the same league.

@StagnantSoul Almost everything you've had an issue with is likely in one of the top 10 mods listed on Steam Workshop. (Boo, Steam. Yea, ok.)
Combat Realism (or it's equivalent, since I think it got a popular fork recently?) has ammo types.
Embrasures (aka gun ports/arrow windows) are common among many of the building/construction-oriented mods, allowing ranged combat from behind cover that also isn't passable.
[Separate areas/limited to one area] is something that is entirely personal choice at this point. By settling an initially small area, you can reasonably secure it faster, and when you branch out to another colony (near or far) you'll have much less of a hit by having the smaller maps. Alternatively, the Ludeonicrous (or w/e) sized maps run reasonably well on a modern machine, even for developed colonies that span most of the map, as long as you don't have a lot of mods that hit on a per-frame/tick basis for every pawn/object (not many I can think of that do this, thankfully.)
Logged

Broseph Stalin

  • Bay Watcher
  • Dabbling Surgeon, Proficient Butcher.
    • View Profile
Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2619 on: August 08, 2017, 01:32:18 am »

Turns out that in combat extended ammunition is set off by fires. I killed two or three enemies in a cluster with an incendiary weapon and then everyone around them had to hunker down because dozens and dozens of bullets went flying after their ammo went up.

scriver

  • Bay Watcher
  • City streets ain't got much pity
    • View Profile
Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2620 on: August 08, 2017, 02:15:55 am »

I had my first run in with incendiary weapons yesterday. A bandit fired one straight into my character and the two raiders surrounding her and tgen decided it was time to run away.

Is the old combat realism/extended version compatible with the newest rimworld patch? I couldn't find any one with with the right numbering.
Logged
Love, scriver~

Yoink

  • Bay Watcher
  • OKAY, FINE.
    • View Profile
Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2621 on: August 08, 2017, 02:44:33 am »

Wait, so is it called "combat realism" or "combat extended" these days? 'Cause I couldn't find any mods called combat realism when I looked yesterday.
Logged
Booze is Life for Yoink

To deprive him of Drink is to steal divinity from God.
you need to reconsider your life
If there's any cause worth dying for, it's memes.

scriver

  • Bay Watcher
  • City streets ain't got much pity
    • View Profile
Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2622 on: August 08, 2017, 08:10:51 am »

As I read it through my look for combat realism it has now changed name to combat extended and involves some other group of modders (but including the original author of combat realirealism), but I couldn't find any actual release of Combat Extended.
Logged
Love, scriver~

TheBronzePickle

  • Bay Watcher
  • Why am I doing this?
    • View Profile
Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2623 on: August 08, 2017, 08:13:50 am »

Combat Extended isn't really a name change of Combat Realism so much as a whole-cloth reworking, if I remember correctly.

Here's the forum page.
Logged
Nothing important here, move along.

scriver

  • Bay Watcher
  • City streets ain't got much pity
    • View Profile
Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #2624 on: August 08, 2017, 08:31:36 am »

Quote from: Combat Extended's Guns submod's steam page
Included guns are: SKS, AK-47, FN FAL, SVD, Tac-50, RPD, PKM, M60, RPG-7, M72 LAW

Who knew that they'd still be using 20th century tech and brands thousands innumerable amount of years into the future.
Logged
Love, scriver~
Pages: 1 ... 173 174 [175] 176 177 ... 276