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Author Topic: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress  (Read 813348 times)

Dostoevsky

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3750 on: May 24, 2021, 12:50:48 pm »

Just tossing in a reminder that this thread was started by the dev, and the first post (and their other posts in the thread) are still available for perusal.
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Salmeuk

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3751 on: May 24, 2021, 01:50:48 pm »

Needless rant regarding DF vs. Rimworld, dev philosophy, below

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hermit games are still my favorite way to play, as long as you turn off the disease mechanic (another thing they got horribly wrong. where are natural immunities? Why did a 24 year old die from the flu, when provided with food and water and a comfy bed? Why can't you recuperate WHILE ALSO cooking for yourself?). Nothing is more exciting than trying to survive raids with just one pawn, walls, turrets, and a bunch of grenades.

How is Rimworld lifted from Dwarf Fortress more than any other colony game? Don't get me wrong, it clearly takes some inspiration from DF, but it's a game that attempts to have a more or less tight gameplay experience with constant raids based on your apparent strength, with a win condition.

Dwarf fortress is more of a sandbox and there are some loose conditions based on wealth and population for raids, but the raids aren't being constantly aimed at you to keep you on your toes.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Why do I care? dunno, I think I'm avoiding work. I also recall some silly comments Tynan made many years ago regarding underlying trait properties in pawns, that actually let on just how little thought he put in to creating these character traits. Rimworld feels like a first draft that found massive funding via it's allusions to Dwarf Fortress, but it sort of failed to follow up on the character-driven storytelling side of design. And, well, it was the early days of kickstarter. A game of the era, for sure.

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Damiac

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3752 on: May 24, 2021, 05:09:54 pm »

Needless rant regarding DF vs. Rimworld, dev philosophy, below

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Hermit games are still my favorite way to play, as long as you turn off the disease mechanic (another thing they got horribly wrong. where are natural immunities? Why did a 24 year old die from the flu, when provided with food and water and a comfy bed? Why can't you recuperate WHILE ALSO cooking for yourself?). Nothing is more exciting than trying to survive raids with just one pawn, walls, turrets, and a bunch of grenades.

How is Rimworld lifted from Dwarf Fortress more than any other colony game? Don't get me wrong, it clearly takes some inspiration from DF, but it's a game that attempts to have a more or less tight gameplay experience with constant raids based on your apparent strength, with a win condition.

Dwarf fortress is more of a sandbox and there are some loose conditions based on wealth and population for raids, but the raids aren't being constantly aimed at you to keep you on your toes.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Why do I care? dunno, I think I'm avoiding work. I also recall some silly comments Tynan made many years ago regarding underlying trait properties in pawns, that actually let on just how little thought he put in to creating these character traits. Rimworld feels like a first draft that found massive funding via it's allusions to Dwarf Fortress, but it sort of failed to follow up on the character-driven storytelling side of design. And, well, it was the early days of kickstarter. A game of the era, for sure.
Maybe I am reading a different interpretation of "lifted" which I took to mean "stolen" rather than "inspired by". Like you guys said, Tynan himself says he was inspired by DF, so no argument there.

I do agree rimworld utterly fails as a story generator with characters. I think it's a better "game" than DF though.
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delphonso

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3753 on: May 24, 2021, 09:46:32 pm »

Rimworld is surely a better "game" in a sort of arcade structure - a start, end, and violence in the middle. Sal, I agree with a lot of your sentinents. Rimworld is a good violence simulator, and the references to DF are pleasant, but it is a shallow experience. Pawns all feel the same - they're either "good" or "bad" (of course only referring to usefulness). Or they become bad by getting two fingers shot off and now cannot craft well or catch a bullet to the brain but don't do you the convenience of dying.

The faction relations is a huge change from DF, and a great idea, but terribly executed. Bad guys will always stay bad guys until you get transport pods, then sending them the skin of their failed raiders somehow makes them your allies.

scriver

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3754 on: May 25, 2021, 04:45:59 am »

Pretty sure that's rational

If some people sent me the skin of the dead raiders that were my comrades I'd be damned sure to stay on their good side too
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BigD145

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3755 on: May 25, 2021, 07:21:25 am »

Pretty sure that's rational

If some people sent me the skin of the dead raiders that were my comrades I'd be damned sure to stay on their good side too

You wouldn't become their friend. Prisoner exchange doesn't make anyone allies.
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scriver

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3756 on: May 25, 2021, 07:52:31 am »

Prisoner exchange? No, you're sending them the tanned hides. That's how space raider hierarchy works. Youprov4 you're the crazier bastards and they follow you.
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Lidku

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3757 on: May 25, 2021, 08:13:39 am »

I think the only thing Rimworld has over DF that I like from it; is that it has guns. Sure, guns can be "modded" into DF, but it's just modded crossbows unfortunately. Can't change the rate of fire without screwing into DF hack, limits certain mods in DF that are delving into sci-fi or modern settings, ranged based combat in general in DF is just bad (besides throwing, of all things), etc.

Generally the aforementioned things haven't stopped modders from implementing guns into various mods before, but I never found any guns really good in DF. Also Toady has stated in the past that he doesn't want DF to ever proceed out of the general "Late Medieval" era of things, so I don't have my hopes up; though I hope for at the least, for an improved ranged combat system in general in the future to develop.

Beyond that, I feel like Rimworld is entirely unfinished compared to DF. The amount of mods needed to make base Rimworld even feel playable or interesting.. is astounding. I was actually shocked when I first heard that Rimworld was "done" as of its last update and subsequent only DLC.
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MorleyDev

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3758 on: May 25, 2021, 09:20:09 am »

A significant difference between DF and RimWorld is that RimWorld has an ending, a goal. Leave the planet. It's not intended to be primarily an indefinite colony simulator ala Dwarf Fortress. That may not sound like much, but that decision has a significant influence on all aspects of a games design. It's described a story generator, but that story has set beginnings and endings (Start as Crash or Tribe, End as Leaving the planet or Dying).

The mechanics exist to make achieving that goal enjoyable and challenging, the UI exists to aid in working with those mechanics to achieve that goal. Even the DLC adds a new way of achieving that goal, and a bunch of mechanics as rewards to help you down that track. Titles and Nobility are intended to be step rewards guiding you on the way to an ending, not ending rewards or standalone gameplay additions in themselves.

RimWorlds UX design isn't amazing. It's okay enough for getting to that goal and interacting with the mechanics.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2021, 09:21:56 am by MorleyDev »
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Yoink

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3759 on: June 18, 2021, 08:09:52 am »

Hnnnnng.   
I reinstalled this and started a colony (I still wish my old one hadn't been irreparably borked by mod+update silliness) and am quickly being reminded how unbearably annoying it is having your colonists repair things needlessly. Are there any mods that split repairing into its own labour? I remember trying to sort that out in the past but I couldn't find any mods for the purpose that didn't also make other changes I didn't need.   
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Iceblaster

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3760 on: June 18, 2021, 11:16:38 am »

There's theeeee work tab expanded mod, by Fluffy here

Let's you 'open up' all the work options to see every little task governed by a specific order and individually prioritize and deprioritize as needed. You don't need to keep them expanded to keep the changed orders as well, as it will have a marker on the changed work orders to show that it's been modified internally.

scriver

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3761 on: July 06, 2021, 10:10:47 am »

So hey, I definitely didn't already post this in the totally wrong thread, but they're releasing a new expansion along with another update. They look pretty interesting.
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forsaken1111

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3762 on: July 06, 2021, 10:32:14 am »

I count quite a few mods being rolled into the game as features which is great, anything that lowers my mod count is awesome. The ideology expansion sounds great, in theory. It will depend on how much depth this adds. If it's just "Your pawns aren't mad about eating people because you clicked the yes cannibal button" then this will be sad.
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BigD145

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3763 on: July 06, 2021, 11:58:09 am »

The nice thing about mods is they can be updated on the fly without waiting on any other code before committing. The problem is they break with major updates. Now with 1.3 going up it'll take time to either wrangle up the old mod authors or get someone else to patch them.
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forsaken1111

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Re: RimWorld - basically the sci-fi Dwarf Fortress
« Reply #3764 on: July 06, 2021, 12:23:12 pm »

Some should be updated when 1.3 drops as they've already given us access to the beta specifically for modders to be able to start updating.
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