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Author Topic: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike) - BETA RELEASED  (Read 287587 times)

endlessblaze

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #585 on: April 22, 2015, 08:04:33 pm »

there are energy blades right? I love me some energy blades....

come to think of it........do you have a list of all the weapons anywhere?

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forsaken1111

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #586 on: April 22, 2015, 10:54:56 pm »

Optional branches open up a possibility for optional victory conditions. In crawl for example you only need iirc 3 of the runes to win the game but people sometimes go for the more difficult objective of gathering all 15 runs from each branch. If you added in some optional objectives like that which were bragging rights more than anything else it would add in some interesting challenge one people feel they have the base gameplay down
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #587 on: April 23, 2015, 03:19:58 am »

I like the idea of optional branches. Hopefully in the long run it will also give us a chance to try out different build ideas for our Cogminds, with some not optimal to some areas or against some enemies, yet well suited to other branches.

Not so much a risk/reward thing, as a playstyle thing. Focusing more on a hacking based setup would be more useful if you wanted to travel through the Mainframe and Core Processing sections for instance, compared to those few levels being the made up of "normal" levels. An explosive AoE setup would be better through areas you know there will be hordes of lighter enemies, compared to a high-damage-single-target setup through other areas with bigger but fewer enemies.

Of course, you're not trapped in any particular setup or playstyle, Cogmind is always evolving as you scavenge parts. It may make some areas no-go zones (or at least hard to go to and survive in) on a given run, but I hope it can give us more of a feel of the ever-changing nature of our character. In some senses, you evolve to your surroundings and the happenstance of what is available to you, but make your decisions on your route through the game and your future evolution and part layout based on how you best fit the here-and-now compared to upcoming future obstacles.

Generalist or specialist? And what type, when, and for how long? The branches give the why you can, or have to, make these decisions.

Not sure if that makes any sense, but I hope you get the gist of it.

In short, branches and side paths linking back to the main complex are a great idea. It should give all kinds of options, obstacles, decision making and storylines/lore a chance to be included. Lots of work, but I reckon you're up for it Kyzrati (post-alpha anyway).
Yep, it's pretty much as you describe it, though also including that bit about not necessarily being able to continue the entire way using a particular build style. Sometimes you'll have to adapt and play based on what you find. Overall the aim is to provide more options, though. It'll require a bit more work to balance correctly (right now it's kind of out of whack), but I think it needs the extra content to add replayability beyond the average usual coffee break roguelike. While it's playable as a coffee break game, I'd hope that with lots of different out of the way paths there will be an incentive to explore. Certainly there are rewards for that exploration...

Optional branches open up a possibility for optional victory conditions. In crawl for example you only need iirc 3 of the runes to win the game but people sometimes go for the more difficult objective of gathering all 15 runs from each branch. If you added in some optional objectives like that which were bragging rights more than anything else it would add in some interesting challenge one people feel they have the base gameplay down
Cogmind Alpha has only one ending, but at least four are planned for the full game, each progressively more difficult, and definitely geared towards the hardcore players who want to show what they can do.

there are energy blades right? I love me some energy blades....

come to think of it........do you have a list of all the weapons anywhere?
Part of the appeal of the game is finding new parts, so there's no complete list, no. I'm sure once it's released someone will eventually post something like that online, but until then, it's all secret...

There might be energy blades.

They also might be tough to get.

They also might be really deadly.

Hm, I did once show a Plasma Sword on this page.

One of the most powerful melee weapons in the game can even... no, never mind.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #588 on: April 23, 2015, 10:18:20 am »

So, there's lots of weaponry that blows up stuff, but is there weaponry that puts stuff back?

It might be cool to have a gun/tool or something else that can throw up a temporary barricade or something like that.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #589 on: April 23, 2015, 10:27:30 am »

So, there's lots of weaponry that blows up stuff, but is there weaponry that puts stuff back?

It might be cool to have a gun/tool or something else that can throw up a temporary barricade or something like that.
Steal a "reconstruction beam" from one of the robots that come in behind you to clean up when you've blown out the walls?
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10ebbor10

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #590 on: April 23, 2015, 10:35:01 am »

Maybe some more variety there would be nice though.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #591 on: April 23, 2015, 11:52:02 am »

Maybe some more variety there would be nice though.
Sure, that was just an example. Throwing up temporary or even permanent barriers would be fun.
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10ebbor10

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #592 on: April 23, 2015, 01:24:05 pm »

Maybe some more variety there would be nice though.
Sure, that was just an example. Throwing up temporary or even permanent barriers would be fun.
Ow, sorry, here I thought you were referring to something that was already in the game.
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forsaken1111

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #593 on: April 23, 2015, 01:52:29 pm »

Maybe some more variety there would be nice though.
Sure, that was just an example. Throwing up temporary or even permanent barriers would be fun.
Ow, sorry, here I thought you were referring to something that was already in the game.
Ah no. I was just suggesting a way to introduce such a device. The rebuilder bots must have something to let them quickly rebuild the walls you destroy no?
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sambojin

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #594 on: April 23, 2015, 06:24:43 pm »

On the small end of things, that would work. Perhaps also barriers (similar to Watch Dogs' street barriers) that pop out of the floor, tied to either a switch/lever or as a hacking option.

On the big end of things, a mega-nano-reconstructor bomb could be a laugh. Heals you, heals the enemy, but also replaces any walls in its blast range. Sort of like the wall-destroyer mega weapon that has been shown, but in reverse. One use only kind-of-thing. Used correctly, it would divide groups of enemies into now re-existing rooms, letting you pick them apart piecemeal. Shouldn't be too horrible to code in either, assuming there's a "destroyed wall debris" tag for tiles that you do blow up in the course of play normally anyway.

There's heaps of options for terrain modification really. Exploding barrels full of magma/acid ala DoomRL are high on my list of possible suggestions, probably for a side-branch (Toxic Waste Disposal area?).
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #595 on: April 23, 2015, 08:35:41 pm »

So, there's lots of weaponry that blows up stuff, but is there weaponry that puts stuff back?

It might be cool to have a gun/tool or something else that can throw up a temporary barricade or something like that.
Steal a "reconstruction beam" from one of the robots that come in behind you to clean up when you've blown out the walls?
So, yeah... that was in there at one point. And the code is still there, but as it turns out, there are a few too many problems so far with keeping the AI robust and letting the player build barriers.

The original idea is you can hack almost any other robot and take control of them, including engineers. There is even still a BUILD command in the orders menu. However, it is far too easy to escape pursuit by building barriers, even temporary ones that can be shot down (which is what I made them into). Not to mention it causes chaos in the complex when you have a lot of unarmed robots milling about that can't do anything about a barrier in their way except call combat robots and wait around. The alternative is to make the enemy get extremely aggressive when you do something like that, which sort of defeats the purpose since then you have an even bigger problem on your hand.

I couldn't yet figure out a way to allow it and make for satisfactory gameplay, so for now I made engineers one of the unhackable robots :(

There's heaps of options for terrain modification really. Exploding barrels full of magma/acid ala DoomRL are high on my list of possible suggestions, probably for a side-branch (Toxic Waste Disposal area?).
Options for a more interactive environment were among the suggestions very early on in development, and are something I've steered away from mostly because they complicate the AI (a much bigger problem when you have a diverse world of non-combat robots).

It would also require a good variety to avoid seeming repetitive throughout the world. As you suggest I think there is room for some area-specific unique hazards, though we'll see what is needed to flesh out the branches as they're created. The main complex is unlikely to have as many of these things, but branches will have content that makes them unique (which they are already getting in several other forms: unique robots and parts, encounters, NPCs...). See also traps below.

On the small end of things, that would work. Perhaps also barriers (similar to Watch Dogs' street barriers) that pop out of the floor, tied to either a switch/lever or as a hacking option.
That's an interesting idea, though really not a whole lot different from hackable doors, which already exist to an extent.

One of the first additions I want to make post-launch is traps. I haven't decided on the details, but these could have a variety of effects, be detectable and hackable, used against the enemy... I imagine they'll remain on the ground for now, but now that I think of it it would be cool if you could pick them up... oh man, I'd really like to finish this game one day rather than continue making it bigger! :P
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sambojin

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #596 on: April 26, 2015, 04:56:05 pm »

It's always a fine balance between time, wants and needs. A million great ideas are always available, but the reality is, unless they're vital for the project, most of them get thrown into the "maybe, but probably never" basket.

The realities of time and money and manpower are harsh.

I wonder how many gamers realize that many developers are in fact fanbois of their own projects and would love to add every little thing into them that they think would be cool? The discipline to not get sidetracked is one of the hardest things to be confident in when making a game. A stalled project can end up as a non-project all too easily.

You're doing pretty well so far at that whole workflow thing. Hopefully one day I'll learn a bit of it :)
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 04:59:33 pm by sambojin »
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Kyzrati

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #597 on: April 29, 2015, 09:13:05 pm »

The Living Dungeon
[Cross-posted from the devblog here--follow link for better formatting and light-on-dark style.]

Having introduced the world of Cogmind from a macro perspective, we now zoom in on the anatomy of individual floors.

In a majority of roguelikes, the content of a given dungeon map is unchanging, and individual encounters on that map play out in relative isolation. When you arrive there are X number of enemies in the area, you encounter an enemy and fight, then another somewhere else, or maybe flee and end up fighting two different enemies together. The overall dungeon experience can be described as a series of encounters where the frequency of enemies (or loot) determines the pacing, and in-between periods are used for resting up or dispatching minor "filler" enemies. Moreover, these enemies might simply wait around for the player to arrive, or perhaps wander around with no particular goal. This is a pretty lifeless world, but is perhaps an apt description of what we could call "pure roguelikes," which reduce the roguelike formula to its tactical decision-making core. It's little surprise that pure roguelikes have no need for story elements, as the role-playing emerges entirely from events that play out as a result of player decisions on exploration, leveling, and combat. Yet the consequences of your actions don't last beyond the effects on your character or equipment.

Why not make dungeons a bit more dynamic? What if the contents of a map could change depending on your actions there? What if your actions there could lead to changes on other maps? Doing these things leads to deeper gameplay without sacrificing anything that defines a roguelike.

Cogmind does these things.


It's Alive!
As suggested before, Cogmind's world is composed of areas which are "more than just a dungeon" (see bottom of this post for some background). Cogmind is not a sandbox game by any measure, but it does handle map content very differently from other non-sandbox roguelikes. Instead of random enemies just sitting/wandering around waiting for the player to come fight them, each robot has a place in a simplified but meaningful ecosystem.

They are actually dynamic parts of a larger community in which each each individual has their own purpose and job. Not only does seeing them carrying out their tasks make the world feel more alive, you can even "become a part of their job" in many ways. Obviously combat robots will attack you when you're deemed a threat, but you'll also be sharing the corridors with many robots that aren't out to do you harm, instead reacting to your actions indirectly as per their routine.


Engineers rebuild floors, walls and doors destroyed by yourself or other robots.

 


Workers clean up debris, here from a destroyed machine

 


Recyclers collect damaged and surplus components for breakdown.

 


Tunneler digging out a new room, and engineers adding walls, floors, and a door on the way out. (They apparently decided not to finish a bit of the south wall...)

This is one of the more immediately obvious unique aspects of Cogmind maps, seeing lots of these green robots going about their business. Some might annoy you, but a resourceful Cogmind will find multiple ways that these non-combat robots can be of use under the right circumstances!

There are additional types of non-combat robots in the game--those listed above happen to be some examples which were already introduced in the public prototype (though all have since undergone some behavioral and capability upgrades). You can discover the rest in game.


Reverse Dungeon Keeper
Cogmind is kind of like Dungeon Keeper in reverse. That almost makes it sound like a normal roguelike, but there's more to the analogy than that.

We have both the "robot ecosystem" outlined above, as well as an actual overarching AI controlling the community's reaction to your presence and actions on a larger scale. You not only have to think about your interactions (combat or otherwise) on an individual robot-to-robot level, but in many cases must also consider the repercussions of your decisions further down the road.

Depending on the circumstances, your unauthorized or hostile actions will be reported, and you will be hunted, or cause enough mayhem and invite a robot army to converge on your position. Thus a particular map's inhabitants are not entirely static. Robots will come and go, and you can even hijack this system via hacking to instruct certain robots to leave the map, or perhaps ask for a shipment of goodies to your location :D.

Completionists might be annoyed that "clearing" a map is next to impossible. The central AI will continue to dispatch units for various purposes, be they maintenance bots necessary to keep the zone running within parameters, or combat-capable bots to deal with troublemakers.

That said, there are areas outside the central AI's sphere of influence, which is the difference between the main complex and some of the branches as distinguished in the previous post about the world layout. We'll talk about the gameplay implications further down.

Rules Access
An important question with regard to these "hidden mechanics" is how the player learns about them. Cogmind is not a black box, which would make for poor roguelike design given that the average player cares about details and having enough knowledge necessary to make informed decisions. There are secrets, for sure, but those belong to the realm of content rather than mechanics.

Basic mechanics are explained via the in-game manual and context help, but there is no such direct system for learning about the central AI. That is accomplished as part of a separate learning process for which there are multiple channels to obtain information contributing to an overall understanding of how it works.

At the simplest level there are a handful of intercepted log messages (global "alerts") that indicate when the central AI is doing something significant.


Probably the most dreaded message you'd see in your log while playing the prototype. There are now worse messages, so stay on your toes ;).

Learning about the AI also ties into information warfare (also here) in several ways, as sensors will enable you to observe enemy movements from afar, and terminals can be hacked for a large amount of relevant information or even control over the system. The most important terminal hack for figuring out the state of the central AI would be "Alert(Check)," which retrieves the current alert level for the local area.


Retrieving the current alert level, which can range from “low security” to 1 to 5.

If the alert level is on the rise, you might want to think twice before starting a firefight around a large array of explosive reactors--those chain reactions can really piss them off!

For those hidden mechanics difficult to figure out purely through observation, non-immersion-breaking NPCs found in certain areas will provide hints or direct advice. (Those areas have not yet been added to the game.)
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forsaken1111

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #598 on: April 30, 2015, 05:51:25 am »

Will there eventually be a way to ally yourself with one or more AI? I was thinking of something sort of like the piety system in many roguelikes, which has you perform actions to gain favor with a god and thus gain rewards. Perhaps we could assail the domain of a rival AI overseer to gain some favor or measure of safe passage.
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jocan2003

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Re: Cogmind (sci-fi robot-themed roguelike in development)
« Reply #599 on: April 30, 2015, 05:59:42 am »

I would gladly hack all recycler/scavenger bot type wich gather spare part and have them drop them all at the same place :D
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