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Author Topic: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize some adventurers. Now with...PvP?!?!  (Read 148292 times)

Iduno

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize some adventurers. Sequel in the works.
« Reply #1410 on: September 06, 2019, 09:25:26 pm »

You know what always makes games enjoyable? Fights you can't run away from or beat. That's great. I love the necromancer after my only ranged character died, and I couldn't run away.

Am I going to die? Absolutely. Will I enjoy 4-6 fucking turns of dying? Nope.
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Sirus

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize some adventurers. Sequel in the works.
« Reply #1411 on: September 06, 2019, 11:26:26 pm »

Except you absolutely can run away, precisely because you might find yourself in a possibly unwinnable situation and need to call the quest off. AFAIK you can retreat from any battle in the game.
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Teneb

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize some adventurers. Sequel in the works.
« Reply #1412 on: September 07, 2019, 09:21:53 am »

Except you absolutely can run away, precisely because you might find yourself in a possibly unwinnable situation and need to call the quest off. AFAIK you can retreat from any battle in the game.
I suspect you can't run away from the final boss, but yeah.
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Iduno

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize some adventurers. Sequel in the works.
« Reply #1413 on: September 07, 2019, 10:04:56 am »

Except you absolutely can run away, precisely because you might find yourself in a possibly unwinnable situation and need to call the quest off. AFAIK you can retreat from any battle in the game.

I quit trying after 3 failures to run away.
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Sirus

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize some adventurers. Sequel in the works.
« Reply #1414 on: September 07, 2019, 12:03:14 pm »

I didn't say it'd be easy to run away, but if you know you can't win a fight it's far and away better to keep trying to flee than get your whole party killed for no gain. Even if just one survives, that one will gain some experience and bring back any loot you've found.
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EuchreJack

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize some adventurers. Sequel in the works.
« Reply #1415 on: September 07, 2019, 04:05:34 pm »

I didn't say it'd be easy to run away, but if you know you can't win a fight it's far and away better to keep trying to flee than get your whole party killed for no gain. Even if just one survives, that one will gain some experience and bring back any loot you've found.

Actually, you have to win the expedition in order to get experience.  Just loot if you run away without completing the mission.  The survivor might even be so screwed up that it isn't worth keeping them.  But that is still more than getting nothing for dying (actually losing a tiny bit, as hero equipment and supplies has some cost).

Protip on the bosses: Read up on them on the wiki before challenging them.  You always know that you're going to face them, the info is right there on how to beat them.  Its kinda cheating yourself of the fun of experiencing them for yourself, but I usually don't indulge in that sort of pleasure, as going in blind usually means losing heroes in order to find out how to fight the bosses.
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nenjin

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Re: Darkest Dungeon. Emotionally traumatize some adventurers. Sequel in the works.
« Reply #1417 on: September 25, 2019, 11:11:43 am »

With an entire inventory full of serpent scales and dodge for days, yeah, I can see that being doable.
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nenjin

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Red Hook released a free little DLC called the Butcher's Circus.

In it you can pit a team of your heroes against a team of someone else's heroes in online multiplayer, all for the amusement and bloodlust of the Hamlet folk. (That and a prestige rank and some fancy lookin' trinkets.)

I definitely did not expect any more updates to the game after the announcement of the sequel, let alone PVP with online multiplayer.

It's not for me; vanilla DD raises my blood pressure and anxiety plenty. But it DOES look pretty cool, the combat system lending itself nicely to PVP. There's tweaks to the rules system (players alternate one hero at a time to attack and can choose who gets to the attack when per turn, bleed and blight can't trigger a deathblow in PVP, there's a new debuff called Dazed that means you can only act after all other un-Dazded heroes on your team have gone, heroes leave corpses like monsters in PVP, etc....)

So if DD wasn't sweaty enough for you, this might fit the (butcher's) bill. Just watching a stream I found myself getting into a match, because anyone that's played DD can share in the psychic pain of dodges and crits happening at the worst possible time.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2020, 07:55:10 pm by nenjin »
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Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, and so I am changing myself.
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When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
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Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
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How will I cheese now assholes?

AzyWng

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For anyone who hasn't tried the Butcher's Circus yet (or read the update notes), it's probably worth mentioning that the Butcher's Circus heroes, trinkets, and EXP system (known as prestige) are completely separate from vanilla Darkest Dungeon games.
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Ai Shizuka

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DD is my third most played game on Steam (100% achievements before this DLC) but I can't say I'm a fan of the circus.
The nature of the game will inevitably lead to cheese teams and connection issues.

Also, not a fan of some of the stupid luck-based achievements.
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nenjin

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Yeah, as far as competition goes, DD relies insanely heavily on RNG so that might be a big detraction from it. For me though, I think it makes for a good spectator sport. The same ups and downs you have in SP gameplay are there, along with team design and player decision making. As for cheese teams.....DD was already there with the SP gameplay a long time ago. If you're not new to DD and get in to the Circus, you should be expecting 4 Crusaders, 4 GRs, 4 Helions....if it worked in the SP, people are naturally going to try it in MP.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 03:29:25 pm by nenjin »
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Quote from: Rumi
Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, and so I am changing myself.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?

AzyWng

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From my brief experience in The Butcher's Circus, it seems you only get one hero of each type. So no teams comprised entirely of antiquarians or whatnot.
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Ai Shizuka

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Only one hero per class allowed, fortunately.

No issues with RNG in single player, but it becomes a huge factor in this pvp format. Just lost against a mark team (basically a copy of my own). First enemy attack: 42hp crit on my musketeer. Second attack: deathblow. My own attacks: 3 deathblow resist in a row.
Obviously it can go in both directions, but it's not a good recipe for a competitive format.

Also, massive connectivity issues. So far I've been able to play one game and after that I get the "unable to communicate" error for a while, before being able to connect again.

EDIT 2: after a dozen or so matches, I can confirm the DLC in the current state is hot garbage. The format of this game is simply not suited for any form of balanced pvp.
Some mechanics should be removed or completely reworked: crits and virtues. Critical hits, as designed in darkest dungeon, don't belong to a respectable pvp format.
The virtues/affliction system don't make any sense, either. Building a team on virtue percentage is, well, undesirable, for obvious reasons. So there's this little chance of getting a virtue, always there. Random chance for a bonus while getting wrecked? Why? To punish to the other player for doing well? Most of the times you are getting a "nope, fuck you" anyway, so why keep that extra layer of RNG?

And mind you, I'm not one of "those" players. In 481 hours I've beaten this game with all sorts of team compositions and on all difficulty levels. RNG is not a deciding factor in single player. But it is the deciding factor in a significant percentage of pvp games.

Also, some skills need to be deleted and re-designed from scratch. Example n.1: bellow.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2020, 03:37:10 pm by Ai Shizuka »
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nenjin

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Not sure I agree. There's an element of RNG everywhere, from who goes first to how much damage an attack does. Without any RNG layer, it would be a pure build / decision making process. Hell even MTG has an element of RNG in what cards are available, when.

Now, that said, people have always criticized the RNG in DD as being too heavy handed. That crits matter too much no matter which direction you're looking. So I don't think it should be a surprise that it's still true in DD PvP.

But I wouldn't fault anyone for considering it hot garbage. It's easy to overlook that in the SP because you can save scum or w/e. But that sense of "I had that!" and being robbed, when there is another human player involved, I can easily see that being a bridge too far.

Like I said, I was watching a stream and a dude failed to get a deathblow at pretty much the most critical moment, and my instantaneous reaction was to close the stream, much like I'd switch away from a TV program that was inflicting weaponzed levels of cringe.  As per my original post, DD works on my anxiety and sense of "entitlement" more so than most games I've ever played. Which is why I'd never touch the PvP, even with another balance pass.

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Quote from: Rumi
Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, and so I am changing myself.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
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