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Author Topic: Space Thread  (Read 129069 times)

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #2115 on: December 05, 2016, 04:35:33 pm »

The NASA paper examining the methodology of the EM Drive paper was itself lacking in methodology?
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sneakey pete

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #2116 on: December 06, 2016, 02:44:25 am »

I also saw an (the same probably) article saying that, I think it was on one of those gizmodo but for science type sites.
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Reelya

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #2117 on: December 06, 2016, 07:16:07 am »

Personally my hunch is that in a few years they're going to be turning around and saying there's no such thing as dark matter, it was just a crutch to fill in some other blank they didn't know about. Dark matter is only needed because of assumptions about cosmic inflation which have been challenged by more recent theories.

Not holding my breath over the EM drive either. Saying the EM drive works because of dark matter might sound so ludicrous in a few years it will be viewed the way we view oxygen being thought of as "dephlogisticated air".
« Last Edit: December 06, 2016, 07:18:28 am by Reelya »
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Il Palazzo

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #2118 on: December 06, 2016, 08:21:51 am »

Personally my hunch is that in a few years they're going to be turning around and saying there's no such thing as dark matter, it was just a crutch to fill in some other blank they didn't know about. Dark matter is only needed because of assumptions about cosmic inflation which have been challenged by more recent theories.
DM is needed to explain galactic rotation curves, the Bullet Cluster, and most importantly (IMO) the peak distribution in acoustic oscillations seen in the CMBR. As far as I can see, neither of those has anything to do with inflation.
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Max™

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #2119 on: December 06, 2016, 09:55:49 am »

Yup, there will never be a point where we go "oops, guess we didn't actually think there was dark matter causing lensing in these clusters" because that isn't an example where a hypothesis exists to be falsified, it is literally an observed fact that the distribution of visible mass and the distribution of mass detectable by the distortion of light passing through the clusters indicate that there is a lot of stuff we can't see sitting there making a surprisingly deep gravity well.

I think of that one as being most important, though the rotation curves and CMBR distribution are also important and not simple things where we'll ever go "whoops, musta been wrong about something" without that "something" being like... relativity itself.

Inflation is tied to the concept of and justification for dark energy, which might be what confused Reelya. DM doesn't really change too much about the whole "there was something, it unfurled, everything we know is cooling debris from the aftermath" description of the early universe, but dark energy can stand in as a mechanism to provide the "briefly it uh... explosively expanded" bits which are useful to explain things like why pieces of the universe which should have been out of causal contact seem like they were actually able to interact at some point, but we need a reason for the observed rate of expansion and initial rate of expansion to have step changes in between at some point.
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martinuzz

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #2120 on: December 08, 2016, 07:43:33 am »

The ESA headquarters experienced a tremor of nearly 5.0 on the Richter scale, when everyone in the building simultaneously sighed in relief.

Despite the recent failure if their Mars lander craft, the EU has decided to continue funding of their Mars missions until at least 2024

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x2yzh9

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #2121 on: December 08, 2016, 11:35:12 am »

So there's a lot of stuff about planet x on the Web now, at least now that I'm looking for it. There's speculation that it's a dead star, or some type of gas giant. Due to the delicate nature of electromagnetism in the solar system, I would postulate that even a minor adjustment in its 3600 year orbit would cause adverse effects one way or the other. Now what I'm getting at here is the concept of climate change, and dark matter as well.

But, before I go on further about this, who is disdainful of the idea that 'planet x' presents a problem? I'd rather know that now then continue in discussing it just to have my argument thrown out the window

i2amroy

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #2122 on: December 08, 2016, 12:06:12 pm »

While there are signs that a larger planet a long distance away might exist (based on the movement of certain Kuiper Belt objects such as the dwarf planet Sedna there could be a mars-sized object out around 53 AU or a neptune-sized one out around 1500 AU), the effects of such a planet on us are extremely, extremely tiny, to the point of being basically unnoticeable. No blaming climate change or anything even close to being similar in scale on any distant planet.

(As a further note, analysis of mid-infrared observations with the WISE telescope have ruled out the possibility of a Saturn-sized object (95 Earth masses) out to 10,000 AU, and a Jupiter-sized or larger object out to 26,000 AU. If there is something out there then it's either small, meaning no oldsters, or very far away).
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Starver

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #2123 on: December 08, 2016, 12:08:50 pm »

So there's a lot of stuff about planet x on the Web now, at least now that I'm looking for it. There's speculation that it's a dead star, or some type of gas giant. Due to the delicate nature of electromagnetism in the solar system,...
¿Que?

I do not think that means what you think that means.  Could you clarify?

Quote
...I would postulate that even a minor adjustment in its 3600 year orbit would cause adverse effects one way or the other. Now what I'm getting at here is the concept of climate change, and dark matter as well.
As a chaotic system, anything can happen, eventually, but nothing is likely in less than a full orbit's-worth of time, let alone in the immediately imminent future.

Climate change* relates to Earth's journey through the solar system, not astrological issues.

(*  - Outside of local atmospheric changes, which are unaffected by the positions of any other planet not actually making contact.)

Dark Matter is something else, also.

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But, before I go on further about this, who is disdainful of the idea that 'planet x' presents a problem? I'd rather know that now then continue in discussing it just to have my argument thrown out the window

Consider me officially disdainful of this. But I'd like to hear where you're actually coming from before I vo too far in deciding where I think your position actually is.

Interesting take on the issue not done particularly well, but at least on the right side of 'crazy'. Not my kind of paper, but Stopped Clocks, and all that...

Also useful as references?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nibiru_cataclysm
https://xkcd.com/1633/
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Strife26

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #2124 on: December 08, 2016, 12:09:58 pm »

While there are signs that a larger planet a long distance away might exist (based on the movement of certain Kuiper Belt objects such as the dwarf planet Sedna there could be a mars-sized object out around 53 AU or a neptune-sized one out around 1500 AU), the effects of such a planet on us are extremely, extremely tiny, to the point of being basically unnoticeable. No blaming climate change or anything even close to being similar in scale on any distant planet.

(As a further note, analysis of mid-infrared observations with the WISE telescope have ruled out the possibility of a Saturn-sized object (95 Earth masses) out to 10,000 AU, and a Jupiter-sized or larger object out to 26,000 AU. If there is something out there then it's either small, meaning no oldsters, or very far away).

I think that you're discounting the possibility that it's a hostile, encroaching planetoid bent on our destruction.
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Strife26

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #2125 on: December 08, 2016, 12:20:54 pm »

I don't know, but it's probably best to stock up on flamethrower fuel now. It's important to note that the series starts as science fiction, not as fantasy.
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Ispil

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #2126 on: December 08, 2016, 12:24:44 pm »

So there's a lot of stuff about planet x on the Web now, at least now that I'm looking for it. There's speculation that it's a dead star, or some type of gas giant. Due to the delicate nature of electromagnetism in the solar system, I would postulate that even a minor adjustment in its 3600 year orbit would cause adverse effects one way or the other. Now what I'm getting at here is the concept of climate change, and dark matter as well.

But, before I go on further about this, who is disdainful of the idea that 'planet x' presents a problem? I'd rather know that now then continue in discussing it just to have my argument thrown out the window

Back in the day, there was additionally supposed to be a planet past Mercury to explain minor perturbations in Mercury's orbit.. Turns out we just weren't modeling gravity completely correctly. Betting that any "sign" of this "planet" is a similar need-revising-to-our-model problem rather than a holy-shit-new-planet problem. Not to mention that any notion that it has anything to do with anything on Earth (fucking climate change? Really? Too ashamed to blame ourselves so we blame a fucking magical planet for how we've fucked up?) is complete and utter bunk.

Note that my more pointed remarks are more at the people coming up with this horseshit than it is with you, since you're simply just asking around about what we think rather than claiming that any of this is true.
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x2yzh9

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #2127 on: December 08, 2016, 01:14:54 pm »

So there's a lot of stuff about planet x on the Web now, at least now that I'm looking for it. There's speculation that it's a dead star, or some type of gas giant. Due to the delicate nature of electromagnetism in the solar system,...
¿Que?

I do not think that means what you think that means.  Could you clarify?

Quote
...I would postulate that even a minor adjustment in its 3600 year orbit would cause adverse effects one way or the other. Now what I'm getting at here is the concept of climate change, and dark matter as well.
As a chaotic system, anything can happen, eventually, but nothing is likely in less than a full orbit's-worth of time, let alone in the immediately imminent future.

Climate change* relates to Earth's journey through the solar system, not astrological issues.

(*  - Outside of local atmospheric changes, which are unaffected by the positions of any other planet not actually making contact.)

Dark Matter is something else, also.

Quote
But, before I go on further about this, who is disdainful of the idea that 'planet x' presents a problem? I'd rather know that now then continue in discussing it just to have my argument thrown out the window

Consider me officially disdainful of this. But I'd like to hear where you're actually coming from before I vo too far in deciding where I think your position actually is.
To clarify...
My position is that any planet in the solar system, or in the universe for that fact, has the possibility of holding an EM Field around it. Such as the sun, any number of the planets in our solar system;however weak or strong they may be.

This, in turn, leads to langrange points-One's that Elon Musk is planning on using for the interplanetary transport system.

So, I guess I could put it like this. If a hypothetical planet x exists, does it have an EM field, how strong or weak is it, and what effect could it's orbital cycle have on the planets in our solar system? With relativity in mind(not the theory-actually just the word relativity itself).

On the other hand Ispil, I don't completely blame this 'planet x' for climate change. Heck to the no. However, I think it could, or could not be a contributing(However large or small) factor to how our planets cycles are arranged, with regards and respect to the fact that climate change is while a natural cycle we are speeding it up 10 times for every degree celsius we get past due to pollution.

edit: I am an open minded individual so feel free to debate my points, or ask questions, etc.

MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #2128 on: December 08, 2016, 01:26:11 pm »

I'm terrified to ask, but what are you defining electromagnetism as here?
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To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead, or endeavoring to convert an atheist by scripture.
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x2yzh9

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Re: Space Thread
« Reply #2129 on: December 08, 2016, 01:36:42 pm »

I'm terrified to ask, but what are you defining electromagnetism as here?
my definition of electromagnetism is still the same basic definition that we have an electromagnetic sphere, but that being something as much of a basic force in the universe as gravity, or dark matter.
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