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Author Topic: Gate designs  (Read 2845 times)

klefenz

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Gate designs
« on: November 17, 2013, 10:28:00 pm »

So during one of my latest sieges i was thinking on the design of the main gate. I got the idea to force the gobling into a detour to trap/shoot them.

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How do you prepare your entrances for sieges?

ImagoDeo

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Re: Gate designs
« Reply #1 on: November 17, 2013, 11:56:34 pm »



This is my current setup. A bit exploitative, to be honest. Raised drawbridges up to the map's edge restrict all trade caravans to that particular slice of map edge, and it's even roofed over with bridges one z-level higher. No sieges or theives or ambushes ever show up there either, at least not that I've seen yet. Doesn't really matter if they do; this is what it looks like down below:



The three ramps that you see cannot be passed except by a wagon. That's because they don't have solid spaces next to them on the z-level below.



This prevents all foot-travel except via that path lined with cage traps. No goblins in here. And I have a restraint set up there to chain a cat to catch thieves, I just haven't been using it.

Overall, I'm basically impervious to raids, sieges, and theives. I get kobold ambushes and goblin ambushes showing up all the time, but they never leave the map edge because there is no open path into my base from any other angle. They just sit there until they die to the deadly purple gas that drifts across every so often. One of these days, I'll make it a project to collect all the goblinite that's been sitting there for so long, but I expect to lose some dwarves to it, so it'll be a number of years before I feel comfortable doing that. Meanwhile, I'm slowly training a super-strong military, getting my metal industry going, trading thousands of prepared meals for hundreds of metal items to melt down, and even farming surface-level crops underground. My dwarves have never had a higher standard of living, and the only deaths so far have been to gas and drawbridges (one particularly nasty accident with my atom smasher...).
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Uggh

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Re: Gate designs
« Reply #2 on: November 18, 2013, 08:01:37 am »

It's easier to offer the goblins the short path and detour the caravans:
Code: [Select]
     WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
     .........TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTD.........
     .........WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.........--> depot
     .........W                                    W.........
     WWWWWW...W                                    W...WWWWWW
     .....W...W                                    W...W
     .....W...W                                    W...W
     .....W...W                                    W...W
     .....W...W                                    W...W
     .....W...W                                    W...W
     .....W...W                                    W...W
     .....W...WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW...W
     .....W............................................W
     .....W............................................W
     .....W............................................W
     .....WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

T - trap
W - wall
D- door
. - empty floor

entry from the left; Goblins will always (until now, at least) take the shorter path with traps, caravans will take the detour. Adapt the length to fit the size of your sieges. I recommend weapon traps, they (hopefully) reload themselves (in contrast to cage traps) which can be useful for a sequence of ambush parties. The door prevents dwarves to the right from being interrupted by the sight of goblins and might also attract some building destroyer. The inner chamber can optionally also be used, e.g. as an additional barracks, to store goblinite, etc. I also pasture some animals to the left of the trap path to detect thieves.

For paranoia reasons I might even add a drawbridge to the left to completely close the entrance or only the caravan detour, but it was never really necessary.
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SkyRender

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Re: Gate designs
« Reply #3 on: November 18, 2013, 10:50:47 am »

Ever since Gearholes (a fort I built way back in the mists of 42d), my entrance defense has been pretty consistent: twisty trap corridor that's walled and roofed in, and it's the only way into the fort.  I also tend to construct a massive walled-in and roofed-off courtyard for my forts, because I have to pasture my animals somewhere.
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ImagoDeo

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Re: Gate designs
« Reply #4 on: November 18, 2013, 11:05:19 am »

Ever since Gearholes (a fort I built way back in the mists of 42d), my entrance defense has been pretty consistent: twisty trap corridor that's walled and roofed in, and it's the only way into the fort.  I also tend to construct a massive walled-in and roofed-off courtyard for my forts, because I have to pasture my animals somewhere.

Digging out the dirt layer provides plenty of grazing land for me.
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Grim Portent

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Re: Gate designs
« Reply #5 on: November 18, 2013, 11:31:21 am »

Since I build in the burning bright sunlight of the surface I only use gates when I'm in places where undead are prevalent. For everything else there's axes. If I can't kill everything that dares attack my meadhalls and houses then I do not deserve to dwell in my lands.

When in an undead zone however I tend to build a single wall around my fort, with a 2x3 drawbridge as my gate flanked by two archer towers that double as barracks for my melee fighters. Allows for a rapid response time and decent security.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2013, 11:33:28 am by Grim Portent »
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Zammer990

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Re: Gate designs
« Reply #6 on: November 18, 2013, 12:46:58 pm »

I just build my fort behind my depot, line the fortside with traps, and have a small room caravans have to pass through filled with tame GCS etc. Have a drawbridge on the fortside of the depot, more or less impenetrable fortress
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If your animals aren't expendable, you could always station a dwarf or two out there?

FrankMcFuzz

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Re: Gate designs
« Reply #7 on: November 18, 2013, 09:21:50 pm »

I've created THE GAUNTLET. It's still under construction, but it's a whole FUN PARK of dorfly execution.

1. First we've got 9 weapon traps and 6 cage traps in 5 alternative lines of 1x3 to thin the herd, with the weapon traps full of 10 serrated spinning blades and giant axe blades. I always use traps full of 10 and my masterwork mechanisms so that I can get my traps nice and visceral.

WWWW
TCTCTBBB
TCTCTBBB
TCTCTBBB
WWWW

2. Then they go down a ramp (which is normally a drawbridge, allowing the merchants free access) and walk across a 1x10 tightrope challenge, lined with additional 10xserrated blade weapon traps.

WWWWWWWWW
R,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,R
RTTTTTTTTTTTR
R,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,R
WWWWWWWWW

3. Of course, on either side of said 'tightrope' is going to be markdwarves shooting at them, and already a pit on each side leading to a 3-z level drop onto lines of upward spike traps filled with 10 spikes each.
4. Courtyard. By this point it's assumed they're dead or weak so I'll probably just put a battle area for my dwarves. However, I was thinking of putting a drowning chamber here because I'm right next to a river.

Now it's only 3 years in, so I don't have access to anything fantastic yet, though the iron and steel industry is booming. I'm trying to make this as deadly yet as fun for the goblins as possible whilst still being simple. Quite frankly I suck with advanced stuff like repeating traps lol. If anyone has any ideas, I need them lol.

I also have a dream of creating a rancor pit with voracious cave crawlers, but that never works due to the dwarves being exposed to immediate evisceration.
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Finn

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Re: Gate designs
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2013, 01:35:58 am »

Well, a rancor pit should be hard, don't you think?   
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FrankMcFuzz

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Re: Gate designs
« Reply #9 on: November 19, 2013, 04:08:39 pm »

Well, a rancor pit should be hard, don't you think?

It'd be nice if they didn't immediately bite off Urist's head.
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gabandre

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Re: Gate designs
« Reply #10 on: November 19, 2013, 04:23:07 pm »

my gates are bridges over downward stairs. giant hatches
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peridot

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Re: Gate designs
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2013, 05:54:46 am »

I use a similar design to the OP: caravan path I can close off, trap-lined single-file path for guests. The main thing I do differently is run the single-file path along a pit to encourage dodging. It's only one z-level deep, but the only way out once you're in brings you up among more single-file traps. This way the weapon traps can have whatever junk weapons I happen to have lying around, mostly goblinite - once invaders get in they keep running through the traps again and again until they're dead. One thing to watch out for is that the "flee" response in your dwarves should send them back into your fortress, not out into a hairpin turn where they can get cornered. So I put a wall along one side of my single-file path: once they've rounded the corner invaders can't scare my dwarves back out.

I added a drowning chamber too, for cleaning out goblin sieges that get stalled. No traps or other hazards until you're inside the drowning zone. Oh, and an artifact hatch cover behind a set of lever-controlled spikes; I'm hoping this will let me take care of titans and whatnot. The minotaur I got was very disappointing; walked right into a cage trap. I dumped him in my fighting pits and let my melee dwarves get some practice. The goblin siege got minced without interrupting the caravan trading.

I'm probably going to build a more cage-based defense when I start entering the cavern, to see what interesting beasties I can collect.
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Bihlbo

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Re: Gate designs
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2013, 03:58:24 am »

I usually keep my regular fort entrance, besieged fort entrance, and caravan entrance separate from one another. I don't want a caravan to start feeling too "at home" if a siege is going on. For the main and besieged entrances what I'm doing now is a:


If invaders make it inside the fort they will find a spot with further insurance against destruction, like a dragon or a lava splatter, or spike traps hooked up to a waterwheel power source. Something. Then, you know, 20 axelords with pet names for their choppers. I don't expect them to spill blood in the next 50 years though, so everything on the interior can wait.
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Button

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Re: Gate designs
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2013, 10:51:23 am »

It's easier to offer the goblins the short path and detour the caravans:
Code: [Select]
     WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
     .........TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTD.........
     .........WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW.........--> depot
     .........W                                    W.........
     WWWWWW...W                                    W...WWWWWW
     .....W...W                                    W...W
     .....W...W                                    W...W
     .....W...W                                    W...W
     .....W...W                                    W...W
     .....W...W                                    W...W
     .....W...W                                    W...W
     .....W...WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW...W
     .....W............................................W
     .....W............................................W
     .....W............................................W
     .....WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

T - trap
W - wall
D- door
. - empty floor

entry from the left; Goblins will always (until now, at least) take the shorter path with traps, caravans will take the detour. Adapt the length to fit the size of your sieges. I recommend weapon traps, they (hopefully) reload themselves (in contrast to cage traps) which can be useful for a sequence of ambush parties. The door prevents dwarves to the right from being interrupted by the sight of goblins and might also attract some building destroyer. The inner chamber can optionally also be used, e.g. as an additional barracks, to store goblinite, etc. I also pasture some animals to the left of the trap path to detect thieves.

For paranoia reasons I might even add a drawbridge to the left to completely close the entrance or only the caravan detour, but it was never really necessary.

Mine is very similar to this, with a few adjustments:

1. Instead of a hall of just-traps, I have a hall of bridges followed by a few lines of traps. The bridges are over a deep pit, and function as one big dwarf-powered trap which never needs reloading or resetting. The traps at the end are for very fast or flying enemies.
2. At the end of the enemy-hallway I have a set of two doors or hatches, between which I have a guard animal chained or pastured. For catching kobolds.
3. The inside of the 'loop' is hollowed out and used by marksdwarves to dispatch pesky ogres, or other enemies too heavy for the bridges.

Sometimes I'll include a dwarven bathtub at the very entrance too, after an unfortunate experience in which I didn't realize I had a tiny strip of evil biome on my embark until ten years in my dwarves started turning into thralls out of nowhere. The bathtub nearly saved the fort... until the dwarven caravan showed up and the whole thing devolved into a loyalty spiral.
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PaleBlueHammer

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Re: Gate designs
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2013, 11:20:41 am »

In the past I've made single-lane entrances which all funneled into one or two paths, looking kind of like a candelabra, forcing invaders into a goblin grinder w. pressure plates blocking them in.  This tends to work VERY well, right up until you get your first building destroyer.  Then you'd better have some kind of alternative defense.

Right now I just have a smallish wall/drawbridges, roofed over with fortifications on the 2nd floor.  The stairs up have an iron hatch over it but I'm not sure how well that's going to work yet, I'd love to have an artifact hatch.

I do regular business with the bridges down and my military training outside, one squad per bridge.  If they happen to miss a thief walking through, I have a turkey stationed in the center of the stairwell.  GUARD TURKEY!  So, regular ambushes / seiges get dealt with right away by the militia, and if something horrible comes in I can pull them back immediately and raise the bridges.  Lever is in the meeting hall for quick access.

I really like traps and dwarfy engineering, but I got tired of rebuilding everything when they're my first line of defense.
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