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[MetalRocks]

Version: 0.34.11


Mods: Lazy Newb Pack.
Modified creature_standard.txt to avoid different sizes for dwarves.

Spoiler: creature_standard.txt (click to show/hide)

   [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:STRENGTH:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250]                +
   [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:AGILITY:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250]                 -
   [PHYS_ATT_RANGE:TOUGHNESS:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250]             +
   [MENT_ATT_RANGE:ANALYTICAL_ABILITY:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250]    +
   [MENT_ATT_RANGE:FOCUS:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250]                ++
   [MENT_ATT_RANGE:CREATIVITY:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250]            +
   [MENT_ATT_RANGE:PATIENCE:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250]              +
   [MENT_ATT_RANGE:MEMORY:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250]                +
   [MENT_ATT_RANGE:SPATIAL_SENSE:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250:1250]        ++
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:HEIGHT:100:100:100:100:100:100:100]
      [APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]
   [BODY_APPEARANCE_MODIFIER:BROADNESS:100:100:100:100:100:100:100]
      [APP_MOD_IMPORTANCE:500]

Spoiler: Armor sets (screenshots) (click to show/hide)

full leather armor

full metal armor

New LNP Nov 16, 2013  (dwarffortress with Urist Da Vinci's Patch)

Spoiler: Graphic comparison of all the materials vs platinum (click to show/hide)

Arena results (500 rounds - 1 dwarf vs 1 dwarf):

Spoiler: Gold vs Platinum War Hammer (click to show/hide)

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	259
Dwarf	Gold War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	241

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	247
Dwarf	Gold War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	253

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	257
Dwarf	Gold War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	243

Platinum total wins 763
Gold total wins: 737

Spoiler: Copper vs Platinum War Hammer (click to show/hide)

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	262
Dwarf	Copper War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	238

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	259
Dwarf	Copper War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	241

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	251
Dwarf	Copper War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	249

Platinum total wins 772
Copper total wins: 728

Spoiler: Silver vs Platinum War Hammer (click to show/hide)

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	270
Dwarf	Silver War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	230

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	262
Dwarf	Silver War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	238

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	251
Dwarf	Silver War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	249

Platinum total wins 783
Silver total wins: 717

Spoiler: Steel vs Platinum War Hammer (click to show/hide)

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	279
Dwarf	Steel War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	221

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	252
Dwarf	Steel War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	248

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	262
Dwarf	Steel War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	238

Platinum total wins 793
Steel total wins: 707

Spoiler: Iron vs Platinum War Hammer (click to show/hide)

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	274
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	226

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	261
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	239

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	256
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	244

Platinum total wins 791
Iron total wins: 709

Spoiler: Adamantine vs Platinum War Hammer (click to show/hide)

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	500
Dwarf	Adamantine War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	0

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	500
Dwarf	Adamantine War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	0

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	488
Dwarf	Adamantine War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	12

Platinum total wins 763
Adamantine total wins: 737

Conclusion:
All metal materials tested (except adamantine) seem to be doing the same for war hammers against leather armor, almost the same against iron armor (highest is 11% difference between gold and silver) and there is a small diference when hitting adamantine armor (highest is 21% difference between platinum and steel).
The results are:
Platinum>=Gold>Copper>Silver=Steel=Iron

Old LNP (dwarffortress without Urist Da Vinci's Patch)
Arena results (100 rounds - 1 dwarf vs 1 dwarf):

Spoiler: Gold vs Platinum War Hammer (click to show/hide)

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	59
Dwarf	Gold War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	41

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	35
Dwarf	Gold War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	65

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster armor user	45
Dwarf	Gold War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster armor user	55

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster armor user	50
Dwarf	Gold War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster armor user	50

Platinum total wins 189
Gold total wins: 211

Spoiler: Steel vs Platinum War Hammer (click to show/hide)

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	53
Dwarf	Steel War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	47

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	53
Dwarf	Steel War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	47

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster armor user	51
Dwarf	Steel War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster armor user	49

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster armor user	41
Dwarf	Steel War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster armor user	59

Platinum total wins: 198
Steel total wins: 202

Spoiler: Iron vs Platinum War Hammer (click to show/hide)

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	54
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	46

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	51
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	49

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster armor user	54
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster armor user	46

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster armor user	53
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster armor user	47

Platinum total wins 212
Iron total wins: 188

Spoiler: Adamantine vs Platinum War Hammer (click to show/hide)

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	100
Dwarf	Adamantine War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	0

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	100
Dwarf	Adamantine War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	0

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster armor user	85
Dwarf	Adamantine War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster armor user	15

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Platinum War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster armor user	95
Dwarf	Adamantine War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster armor user	5

Platinum total wins 380
Adamantine total wins: 20

Spoiler: Silver vs Iron War Hammer (click to show/hide)

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Silver War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	55
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	45

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Silver War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	56
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	44

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Silver War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster armor user	38
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster armor user	62

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Silver War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	109
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	91

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Silver War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster armor user	56
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather	Grandmaster armor user	44

Silver total wins 314
Iron total wins: 286

Spoiler: Testing density in the material (click to show/hide)

Ironx10 is the same than iron but with 78500 solid_density instead of 7850.

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	57
Dwarf	Ironx10 density War Hammer	full leather+adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	43

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster armor user	55
Dwarf	Ironx10 density War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster armor user	45

Iron25 is the same than iron but with 25000 solid_density instead of 7850.

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	40
Dwarf	Iron25 density War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	60

Iron20 is the same than iron but with 20000 solid_density instead of 7850.

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+Adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	51
Dwarf	Iron20 War Hammer	full leather+Adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	49

Iron15 is the same than iron but with 15000 solid_density instead of 7850.

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+Adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	44
Dwarf	Iron15 War Hammer	full leather+Adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	56

Iron5 is the same than iron but with 5000 solid_density instead of 7850.

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+Adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	61
Dwarf	Iron5 War Hammer	full leather+Adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	39

Iron4 is the same than iron but with 4000 solid_density instead of 7850.

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+Adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	51
Dwarf	Iron4 War Hammer	full leather+Adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	49

Iron0.2 is the same than iron but with 200 (as adamantine) solid_density instead of 7850.

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Iron War Hammer	full leather+Adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	100
Dwarf	Iron0.2 War Hammer	full leather+Adamantine	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	0

Spoiler: Testing impact yield and impact fracture benefits for war hammers (click to show/hide)

Iron low impact is the same than iron but has
   [IMPACT_YIELD:50000]
   [IMPACT_FRACTURE:50000]

Iron high impact is the same than iron but has
   [IMPACT_YIELD:5000000]
   [IMPACT_FRACTURE:5000000]

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
Dwarf	Iron low impact War Hammer	full leather+iron	Proficient hammerdwarf/Grandmaster armor user	56
Dwarf	Iron high impact War Hammer	full leather+iron	Proficient hammerdwarf/Grandmaster armor user	44

Conclusion:
All metal materials tested (except adamantine) seem to be doing the same for war hammers with no noticeable difference (at least against armored enemies).
Less density might give advantage over high densities due to the bug reported by Urist Da Vinci (weights with a large decimal values are more important than densities)
Very high impact yield and very high impact fracture gave no advantage against very low impact values.

[Zammer990]

I think the problem is the tradeoff of speed of strikes against damage of strikes, a hammer that shatters every rib is good, but if you only get one swing and hit him in the finger, you're dead

[Urist Da Vinci]

Over on the modding forum I made a thread a while ago where I explained how the material properties are used in combat: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131995.0

I should go update the wiki someday.

[Urist McRas]

MetalRocks, did you do it manually or you know a way to automate the testing? Could you do some more experiments for me?
1. Check if adamantine is really worse.
2. Check if silver is notably better then iron if both dwarfs have leather armor.
3. Make lighter version of iron and test it vs iron like you tested heaveier version of iron.
4. (only if you know how to automate the testing) Do platinum vs steel (full leather+adamantine) for 1000 or more rounds.

[Oort]

So does higher density have a fewer number of stronger hits?

[TruePikachu]

So does higher density have a fewer number of stronger hits?

The traditional understanding is that greater density == harder hits. However, this study goes against that.

Someone should check the actual code dealing with it update the wiki with their findings from the code.

[MetalRocks]

Edited original post with new data.

I think the problem is the tradeoff of speed of strikes against damage of strikes, a hammer that shatters every rib is good, but if you only get one swing and hit him in the finger, you're dead

Not sure about that. But seems that a material with half the density of iron can be about as good as iron or a material 10 times denser. I think there could be a (hardcoded) cap in density so that adamantine cant be used for war hammers.

Over on the modding forum I made a thread a while ago where I explained how the material properties are used in combat: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131995.0

I should go update the wiki someday.

Complicated but interesting. In the set of defense calculations for use against blunt weapons the material of the blunt weapon is not used. Only in the set of defense calculations for edge weapons the material matters (shear yield and shear fracture)

MetalRocks, did you do it manually or you know a way to automate the testing? Could you do some more experiments for me?
1. Check if adamantine is really worse.
2. Check if silver is notably better then iron if both dwarfs have leather armor.
3. Make lighter version of iron and test it vs iron like you tested heaveier version of iron.
4. (only if you know how to automate the testing) Do platinum vs steel (full leather+adamantine) for 1000 or more rounds.

1. It is REALLY worse. It seems the only kills the adamantine war hammer holders got were by bites when opponents didn't have any hammerdwarf skill level.
2. Both seem pretty much the same. See the results in the original post.
3. Done. Can't see a real difference except when it has adamantine density, in which case it acts exactly like adamantine (it is useless)
4. Unfortunately I dont know how to automate the testing. I just load the arena.txt (the arena map) with over a thousand dungeons already built and then place the dwarves. Right now I am typing with what is left of my sanity.

[MetalRocks]

Sorry for the double post.

[Urist McRas]

Thank you, MetalRocks, you did a great work. Have a cookie and kill a bunch of elves, it shold help you to restore your sanity.

[Urist Da Vinci]

...

Over on the modding forum I made a thread a while ago where I explained how the material properties are used in combat: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131995.0

I should go update the wiki someday.

Complicated but interesting. In the set of defense calculations for use against blunt weapons the material of the blunt weapon is not used. Only in the set of defense calculations for edge weapons the material matters (shear yield and shear fracture)
...

If the IMPACT_YIELD of the weapon is very low and the defending layer is dense/heavy, the weapon will deflect off the defending layer material. For example, wood arrows deflect off most metal armors except for adamantine.

Before I did the above linked post on the modding forum, I made this post on the DF mode forum: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131527.0
TLDR: There is a bug in 0.34.11 related to weapon weights and momentums (i.e. swing speed) - this could make comparison testing difficult or meaningless unless the bug is patched!

[MetalRocks]

If the IMPACT_YIELD of the weapon is very low and the defending layer is dense/heavy, the weapon will deflect off the defending layer material. For example, wood arrows deflect off most metal armors except for adamantine.

Before I did the above linked post on the modding forum, I made this post on the DF mode forum: http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=131527.0
TLDR: There is a bug in 0.34.11 related to weapon weights and momentums (i.e. swing speed) - this could make comparison testing difficult or meaningless unless the bug is patched!

So:
1.- It is important to have a minimum impact_yield (also impact_fracture?) in the material of the hammer when hitting high weights (dense or big objects). That would make lead a poor choice for war hammers (impact_yield 35). What are the minimum impact_yield/fracture values for hitting an object? is it just impact yield of the weapon against impact fracture of the target?

2.- (With the bug) the weapons with low densities can apply a higher momentum than weapons with high densities when the first decimal value of the weight is high. That would explain why iron war hammers with 4 density (1.6 weight) performed better than iron war hammer with density 5 (2 weight).
But war hammer materials tested dont have low weights with a high decimal value (which would make a real difference, since with the patch the momentum of all the materials will be just nerfed a bit almost evenly for warhammers):

Material	density	weight of the hammer
Steel	7.85	3.14
Iron	7.85	3.14
Silver	10.49	4.196
Gold	19.32	7.728
Platinum	21.4	8.56

After the patch platinum hammers would get a tiny advantage over gold but with or without the patch gold and platinum war hammers should get a better momentum than iron, steel or silver (which is not showing).
After the patch momentum of war hammers should be:
Platinum>=Gold>Silver>=Steel=Iron
And before the patch (with the bug) momentum of the war hammers should be about the same:
Gold>=Platinum>Silver>=Steel=Iron
The test (with the bug) shows:
Gold>=Platinum=Silver=Steel>=iron

Which means that even after the patch density wouldnt affect much the difference between tested materials because it wont affect much the difference of the momentums between war hammers made of these materials.

BTW thanks for the patch.

[MetalRocks]

double post.

[VerdantSF]

I'm a huge fan of blunt weapons.  Thanks for testing this so thoroughly, Metalrocks!

[mahrgell]

the conclusion from those tests may be misleading. While it may not matter against a dwarf, how heavy he hammer is, you strike him with... how does it go with tougher opponents. Hitting a decent material FB with a simple iron hammer and a silverhammer may have completely different results from the ones posted above

[MetalRocks]

Have updated the original post with tests done after installing the latest Lazy NewB Pack. There is a graph for those too lazy.

the conclusion from those tests may be misleading. While it may not matter against a dwarf, how heavy he hammer is, you strike him with... how does it go with tougher opponents. Hitting a decent material FB with a simple iron hammer and a silverhammer may have completely different results from the ones posted above

There is no hammer that will save you from something like a bronze colossus no matter the material, and I cant test figts against FBs, but the above results show how hammers behave against adamantine (I think that is a decent material) and iron. I have tested hammers vs hydras (size 8,000,000 cm³):

Spoiler: Iron vs Platinum War Hammer fighting hydras (click to show/hide)

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
3 Dwarves	Iron War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	43
Hydra	-	-	-	57

Creature	Weapon	Armor	Skills	Rounds won
3 Dwarves	Platinum War Hammer	full leather+iron	Grandmaster hammerdwarf/armor user	47
Hydra	-	-	-	53

As you can see the results dont differ too much from one hammer to another.