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[Darkmere]

There are a lot of reasonable neutral cards that do their jobs cheaply and well. Bonemare, cobalt scalebane, firefly, tar creeper, fire plume phoenix. From what I've read tempo rogue with no legendaries still has a 54% win rate at legend. If you're willing to run two Stonehills in paladin you have a solid chance of getting Tirion, Wickerflame, or Tarim off the discover.

Secret mage is strong with no legendaries and extremely safe to craft epics (primordial glyph will be good forever unless you insist on shooting yourself in the foot and playing standard only).

There's an aggressive Dudes paladin deck that, as far as I remember, doesn't even run an epic card in it.

[Criptfeind]

The existence of power commons (which is good) doesn't really negate the increased cost of decks from more epics and legendarys being used. Like, even if commons were garbage, a deck of 30 rares would still cost less and be way more reasonable for a new player to get then a deck with two legendarys in it. It's almost like a mental trap. "Look. Blizzard printed bonemare, they do care about players on a budget. Also here's Prince Keleseth and patches the pirate! And also the stronger free cards are getting nerffed!"

I'd be interested to know about this tempo rogue without legendarys, since the tempo rogue that I know gets its main power from a bunch of legendary and epic cards (and bonemare) and is probably the most expensive aggro deck that there's ever been in hearthstone.

And, yeah, you're right, secret mage is okay. It's probably better then hunter. Probably the best budget deck that can be reasonably called such. It's not all gone downhill for a new player. Just mostly.

The previous year top decks were indeed cheap and absoltely retarded. I'm happy to see higher tier decks of today becoming more expensive and requiring more skill to play effectively.

I can understand wanting decks to take "more skill" but why would you want more expensive to equal good? Unless you're an absolute whale of a player without any empathy, the game being even more pay to win then necessary just seems like a straight up bad thing. I mean, I'm pretty sure hearthstone is making enough money it's not in any danger of shutting down, so why do you think it should cost more to play better decks?

[Darkmere]

All I've heard about is a replacement for tempo rogue that cuts the legendaries including keleseth for faster or more efficient spells that kill other tempo rogues. I don't play either deck.

Also, I'm just going to abstain from further discussion, this argument has made me irritated enough on reddit as it is.

[Strongpoint]

I'd be interested to know about this tempo rogue without legendarys, since the tempo rogue that I know gets its main power from a bunch of legendary and epic cards (and bonemare) and is probably the most expensive aggro deck that there's ever been in hearthstone.

Something like...

# Class: Rogue
# Format: Standard
# Year of the Mammoth
#
# 2x (0) Backstab
# 2x (1) Acherus Veteran
# 2x (1) Argent Squire
# 2x (1) Cold Blood
# 2x (1) Fire Fly
# 2x (2) Defias Ringleader
# 2x (2) Eviscerate
# 2x (2) Golakka Crawler
# 2x (2) Razorpetal Lasher
# 1x (3) Plague Scientist
# 2x (3) SI:7 Agent
# 2x (3) Tar Creeper
# 2x (4) Dark Iron Dwarf
# 1x (4) Spellbreaker
# 2x (5) Cobalt Scalebane
# 2x (7) Bonemare
#
AAECAYO6AgLyBZTQAg60AckBjALcAvUFiAfdCPjBAuTCAuvCAsrDAsrLApXOAqbOAgA=

...is totally a rank 5 material in the right hands. Edwin and Slayers are sorely missed. Pirate package is nice but having none of them isn't that bad in the current "crawlers everywhere" meta. Lack of prince is compensated by good old eviscerates.

[ZeroGravitas]

everyone too busy playing dungeon runs to talk about new expansion eh

[Darkmere]

everyone too busy playing dungeon runs to talk about new expansion eh

... Guilty as charged. Had serious trouble with paladin, oddly enough, but I did get my 9 wins.

During spoiler season I was skeptical, but after launch I'm warming up to the set here and there.

Out of 79 packs with gold and the promotional packs, I got:

* Ixlid, the druid legendary (seems really slow, haven't tried him yet)
* Dragon Soul (I have Lyra but I haven't played miracle priest since April, dunno how well it could perform now)
* Sonya Shadowdancer (awesome in dungeon runs, want to put her in my wild jade DK rogue)
* Grumble, Worldshaker (seems winmore... I can't think of a position where you want to skip a turn for his effect unless you're already way ahead on board and don't care?)
* Skull of Man'ari (haven't used it yet, seems good if weapon hate isn't popular)
* Rin the First Disciple in Golden (I want to use her with the Skull, just need to craft Mal'ganis at some point. That's a LOT of shiny gold cards and Azari's animation is pretty awesome)
* Zola the Gorgon - the swiss army knife of the set. She's useful somewhere in almost every deck, and I now have every golden minion ever. Doubleplus good.

The recruit mechanic is more interesting than patches, and I'm astonished that spell-face hunter got any play time, but it's been hilarious to watch. Otherwise, as per usual I'm not crafting anything for a couple weeks until the meta shakes out.

[Jopax]

Dungeon run is probably the most fun I've had in HS in a very long time. Hell I've played more of that today than I've had HS in the last several months :S

Yes it's imbalanced and heavily reliant on luck but it's also short, crazy and fun, and costs you nothing but the half hour it'd take to do the whole run.

It has some issues that I'd like to see adressed tho, mainly how certain runs can just drop dead if run into a particular boss that just hard counters your class (namely that fucking trogg that summons tunnel troggs and any class that relies on spells, he's ok if you're both low lvl so he doesn't have much HP, but good luck getting him down from 40 with every spell you cast giving him a distinct board advantage) and one of the final bosses being so damn random that there is little to no thinking in facing him other than burn face with whatever the fuck you have and hope you get stalls and boardclears once his bullshit treasures kick in, and even then you might not have enough to stem the tide of a full hand of 0 cost legendaries.

Still, super fun regardless.

As far as cards from packs go, think I've had like 10 random packs from whatever when I logged in today, got that gorgon lady, got aluneth as my expansion weapon and that shitty runespear in another pack. Some assorted stuff for other classes too, don't think I'll be playing any of it in the forseeable future tho, solo play is far too fun to bother with the shitfest of constructed atm.

[Darkmere]

I ran up against Darkness as a dungeon run boss, with a warlock ramp deck and 12 giants or so.

His deck is literally all removal, I checked. Entomb mind control shadow words psychic scream twisting nether.

On another run I just milled him completely to death, so that felt good.

To date I think my favorite run was a double battlecry paladin with a load of buffs and three Lynessas that buffed up to more than 35 damage when played... but double deathrattle Val'anyr can be okay, I guess.

[Jopax]

My two favourites were the burn/spell power mage which had a bunch of clears, burns and +6 to spell power, got the furthest with that one, and a big guy druid which had like, 3 Y'Shaarjes, C'thun, Malygos, Aviana, Kun, Ysera, pretty much every single giant legendary or several of them, and they all cost 5 mana. It was freaking glorious dropping one at turn five and flooding the board with big stuff trough the next two turns.

[Criptfeind]

Probably everyone here already knows it, but just in case it someones not noticed. Blizzard dropped support for the hunter dk because as a small indie company they don't have the resources or know how to make him work. So don't try out that shiny new non minion hunter because the dk is fucked.

On the dungeon runs, they're alright. I'd like a lot more if they had at least a little bit of progression too them. The ability to do quests or something.

[Darkmere]

They're going to update Deathstalker Rexxar.

I don't have the tools to make Spell hunter, but I think the DK card works really well as top-end in a midrange deck. I've been using it in a wild egg hunter deck that feels great to play and has a decent enough win rate for quests. I also wouldn't be surprised if the new spellstone combo'd with a secret package well enough to throw DK Rex in there, too.

Plus it's just a fun card all around.

[ZeroGravitas]

dungeon runs are great - i've won with about half the classes. but the more experience you have with it, the more frustrating it can get. like my last hunter run, I picked the +3 spell damage treasure and then literally never any Shots group offered, and Secrets never had explosive trap.

but that was ok because Wax Rager+double Deathrattle showed up to win the day.

[Darkmere]

Alright, have a stupid expensive meme deck I came up with.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

### Twig of the Meme Tree
# Class: Druid
# Format: Wild
#
# 1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos
# 2x (2) Doomsayer
# 2x (2) Druid of the Swarm
# 1x (3) Brann Bronzebeard
# 2x (3) Greedy Sprite
# 1x (3) Rummaging Kobold
# 2x (3) Tar Creeper
# 1x (3) Zola the Gorgon
# 2x (4) Branching Paths
# 2x (4) Mire Keeper
# 2x (4) Swipe
# 1x (4) Twig of the World Tree
# 2x (5) Druid of the Claw
# 1x (5) Ixlid, Fungal Lord
# 2x (5) Nourish
# 2x (6) Spreading Plague
# 1x (7) Malfurion the Pestilent
# 1x ( Medivh, the Guardian
# 2x (10) Ultimate Infestation
#
AAEBAZICCO0FhRehtwKZ0wKj5gKI6AKb6ALD6gILQF+KAbQFvq4CysMCm80CoM0Ch84CntIC+eYCAA==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

The goal is to abuse copies of twig of the world tree or Atiesh to make big board swings. No one expects silly shit like this in druid, so they'll spend most of the game trying to figure out wtf you're even doing while you drop ixlid and golden zola clones and reforge weapons like a champ. Everything is surprisingly flexible... spreading plague into +2 attack from branching paths for some burst, clone a 4/4 charger with zola and use your weapon copies to pay for two turns in a row to play it.

[ZeroGravitas]

Alright, have a stupid expensive meme deck I came up with.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

### Twig of the Meme Tree
# Class: Druid
# Format: Wild
#
# 1x (2) Bloodmage Thalnos
# 2x (2) Doomsayer
# 2x (2) Druid of the Swarm
# 1x (3) Brann Bronzebeard
# 2x (3) Greedy Sprite
# 1x (3) Rummaging Kobold
# 2x (3) Tar Creeper
# 1x (3) Zola the Gorgon
# 2x (4) Branching Paths
# 2x (4) Mire Keeper
# 2x (4) Swipe
# 1x (4) Twig of the World Tree
# 2x (5) Druid of the Claw
# 1x (5) Ixlid, Fungal Lord
# 2x (5) Nourish
# 2x (6) Spreading Plague
# 1x (7) Malfurion the Pestilent
# 1x ( Medivh, the Guardian
# 2x (10) Ultimate Infestation
#
AAEBAZICCO0FhRehtwKZ0wKj5gKI6AKb6ALD6gILQF+KAbQFvq4CysMCm80CoM0Ch84CntIC+eYCAA==
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

The goal is to abuse copies of twig of the world tree or Atiesh to make big board swings. No one expects silly shit like this in druid, so they'll spend most of the game trying to figure out wtf you're even doing while you drop ixlid and golden zola clones and reforge weapons like a champ. Everything is surprisingly flexible... spreading plague into +2 attack from branching paths for some burst, clone a 4/4 charger with zola and use your weapon copies to pay for two turns in a row to play it.

it makes me wonder if there is some viable otk/exodia druid deck. card like ixlid and twig suggest that there is.

[Darkmere]

Aviana Kun C'thun Brann brewmaster can get you 60+ damage in a turn or more. It used to be a ladder-viable deck at one point. Twig is shittier than Kun, but you can take a tempo hit to play it more than once... if you have a way to break it more than once. I've seen Dane (wild streamer) play twig with Blingtron but I don't have one to experiment with.