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[Urist McTeellox]

So, for those reading along, the "Orc Fortress Beta" (at the top of this thread) and SWP-beta are now exactly the same. That means you'll need to turn orcs on as a playable race when you download, but it makes the revision histories much easier.

Also, since the milestone 1 release, there have been a few fixes (and these will continue to come as I playtest):

* The molten pit now doubles as a slag-pit.  (You can still build a slag pit if you like)
* The boneyard can craft many more things.

~ T

[Urist McTeellox]

So, it looks like starting Shamen (who doubles as chief medical orcs) can make mandates and demands. Anyone have opinions on this? I have my own, but don't want to prime you.

~ T

[shadowclasper]

Makes sense to me. He's a respected member of the clan.

It'd be pretty cool if all the starting orcs, The settlement founders, got demands.

[Urist McTeellox]

The boneforge¹ is in, with thanks to shadowclasper for the design.

* Commit on github
* Manual entry

The manual is in wiki format, so feel free to fix or improve anything you see that could do with it.

It's in all the orc_rebalance / SWP-beta downloads, including the patchzips. Right now it's a little slim on reactions, but it means all the ironbone/bloodsteel production can now happen in a single place (rather than wood oven + kitchen + totem pole).

I'm happy to see it expanded and improved upon. Contributing via SWP (on the beta or orc_rebalance branches) is the best way to do this, as it makes it super-easy for me to merge your changes when they're done.

Enjoy!

¹ I know we called it the bonesmelter, but apparently I can't handle more than two syllables when modding.

[Urist McTeellox]

Been doing a little thinking about kobold and goblin "migrants". I don't like how they're implemented right now, they're inorganic tools which are used as buildmats, and you still need an orc to get them to "work".

Instead, I'd like to change it so they're actual units. The spawn script (used by the town-portal) makes it easy enough to create new fortress members, although they can't be drafted into the military. This is perfect, because no orc clan would *want* them in the military.

The existing kobold and goblin workshops would be preserved, but a reaction product would be added to encourage their use by migrants only. At a basic level, this would be something triggered by AutoSyndrome, and to which the desired worker race is immune. I'm not familiar with what syndromes can apply, but obvious things could be risk of injury, or just making orcs who need to work at a goblin/kobold workshop completely miserable. At a more advanced level we could run actions from dfhack (also easy to trigger), and again I'm looking towards affected units being miserable at having to work. In a fancy implementation we could have the side-effects depend upon the work being performed.

It would be easy to control which workers can use the workshop by means of the profile manager, so you wouldn't get proper orcs doing goblin/kobold tasks by accident.

This also allows for thematic camps where goblins and kobolds do most of the hauling and other menial labour, if that's what you want.

Thoughts and feedback are appreciated, especially if you're familiar with syndromes and what appropriate effects we can apply to orcish workers using kobold/goblin workshops.

~ T

[Meph]

Feedback: Spawnunit can not spawn civ-members that are non-civ-member-creatures and do labors. You can spawn a kobold, yes. It will be a civ-member, yes. It wont do any labors. Only the CREATURE:ORC_TAIGA will do labors, because this is the creature that founded the civ.

In short: Its not possible what you plan, not with the current setup at least.

[shadowclasper]

One problem with calling it the boneforge is that there might be some confusion with the warlock's boneforge, which does something ENTIRELY different (it makes weapons and armor from bone, where as the corrupted forge handles these reactions).

Just putting that out there.

[Meph]

If it makes ironbone and bloodsteel, it could probably use another name. Because only one of the reagents is actually bone, the rest is ash, blood, fuel...

[shadowclasper]

Tribal Forge? Ancestral Firepit? Can put in corpses to produce memorials for the deceased as well?

It'd be interesting if orcs had an entirely different take on ironbone and bloodsteel than warlocks do.

Perhaps they even produce an entirely different metal than dreadnaught in this particular forge? Ancestral Steel or Bronze perhaps, requiring a memorial to be made (the reaction puts out a new memorial at the same time, but the point is that you need a memorial to produce a bar of it, the idea being that you're taking some of the ashes of your ancestor and using them with blood steel to produce a new kind of steel).

Where Dreadnaught is 25% stronger than steel, twice as heavy, and reduces all incoming damage by 50% when used in armor, and costs one bloodsteel bar, one soul, and one fuel to make.

Ancestral Bronze would be 25% stronger than steel, half as heavy, and increase damage by 50% when used in weapons. It would cost 1 bloodsteel bar, 1 memorial (or perhaps 1 honor token or a certain number of scalps?), and one fuel to make.

Another name might be Honored Bronze or Honorable Brass or something. Espeically if it's produced from scalps or honor tokens or whatever instead of memorials.

A special reaction at one of the forges would turn a single bar into a full stack of arrows made of the substance, since the idea would be that it's a tribal material used in ancient times as the heads of arrows for hunting elves?

What do you guys think? It might give the ideas for orcish ironbone and bloodsteel an entirely different tone than when used by warlocks?

[Meph]

I am trying to keep new metal types low, maybe even reducing them a bit, because they do show up in all civs. Dwarves will see an entry for that dreadnought in their forge. I made 3 metals for the Warlocks, and I dont want to do more.

Orcs already added deep bronze, orichalcum, ebonglass and ashland glass. Kobolds added none.

[shadowclasper]

wait, how would dreadnaught show up in the dwarven forge if it's a reaction specific to the corrupted forge?

edit: Also what if it wasn't a metal? So instead of Ancestral Steel it was something else entirely instead of a metal? It could potentially count as a kind of wood or stone? Would what eliminate it from the forging process?

That way the Orcs would have an exclusive ability to produce weapons with it?

[Meph]

Because its a metal.

[shadowclasper]

Yes, but isn't that just a code in the raws?

Couldn't we, for example, have a reaction that took 1 blood steel, 1 honor token or whatever, and 1 fuel, and turned it into one Ancestral Rock or whatever? Which would count as stone, not metal? And be used for tribal warcrafter items and making things like arrows and other tribal weapons?

Thus it wouldn't appear in the forge, we'd keep the total number of metals down, and it would still be appropriate for the proposed stats?

edit: Also can't other factions having it be neatly avoided by simply changing the reactions that permit them?

For example, couldn't you just remove the normal forge from the dwarf's ability to make the same way, for example, the soap maker can be removed entirely? And replace it with a forge that won't have reactions for dreadnaught or other inappropriate metals?

[fasquardon]

On the subject of making Orcs less agricultural, my current test fort uses the extra plants, and I notice that having more plant types available makes the Orcs much more productive, farming-wise.  Since Smake's Orcs come with extra plants as part of their package, perhaps the way to reduce their agriucultural prowess is simply to reduce the number crops they can farm?

fasquardon

[Shadow9657]

I've been playing as the rebalanced orcs for a little while and I was thinking that maybe you should add a building that is equivalent to the dwarven emissary building. That way you can make it so orcs can call for more migrants and purposely cause seiges.