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[zombie urist]

Why is the thread locked when a mafia becomes king?

[Leafsnail]

Well I guess there's two sides to that question.

1. Why is the town informed that a mafia member has become King?  The reason is that a kinged mafia no longer has any reason to care about how they appear - they're inevitably going to die and flip mafia anyway.  So any daygame that occurs when a mafia member is king would just be a waste of time (I think the correct play for the mafia king would just be to not say anything anyway).

2. Why is the thread locked after the mafia member is announced?  Well, if the mafia member has no reason to communicate with the town and will simply be making a decision on their own it's basically a nightphase - the town don't have anything to decide.  I guess the town could use the time to help decide the next kill, but I don't particularly want to give them any extra time to decide in an extensionless game.  Also I think it would probably be correct play for town to shut up too, discussing their suspicions would mainly just serve to give the mafia more information to decide the kill with.

[4maskwolf]

I have a setup that I'd like some advice on.

The game itself is called The Home Front, and it is set in the 1900's.  The mechanics of the game are basically the same as normal mafia, no weird lynch mechanics.  The mafia equivalent are the protesters, and they have a nightkill.  The patriots are the town equivalent in this case, but note that this is more out of historical context of protesters being demonized rather than me passing judgement on them.

The roles:
4 vanilla patriots: win when the protesters have been lynched, no special powers
1 patriot organizer: Inspects the loyalty of players, wins when the protesters have been lynched
1 Protester: scumteam, no powers
1 Protest Organizer: scumteam, can inspect loyalty
1 Military Recruiter: The military recruiter can, once per night, recruit another player into the military.  This gives them the soldier status, which makes them turn up "soldier" to any loyalty or role investigations.  The powers and alignments of the players do not change.  He wins if the game ends with all alive players recruited.  If he attempts to recruit the extreme patriot or the extreme protester, however, a firefight ensues and there is a 50-50 chance of either dying.  He knows who the police chief is, and the police chief counts as military for the purposes of his wincon.
1 Extreme Patriot: The extreme patriot wants the reluctant citizen and the extreme protester dead, as well as to survive the game.  He has a night kill to accomplish this, but loses immediately if he kills a soldier.  Despite the name, he is not considered a patriot for the purposes of wincons.
1 Extreme Protester: The extreme protester wants the military recruiter, the eager citizen, and the extreme patriot dead, as well as to survive the game.  He has a night kill to accomplish this, but immediately loses if he kills a protester or the reluctant citizen.  Despite the name, he is not considered a protester for the purposes of wincons.
1 Reluctant Citizen: The reluctant citizen does not want to go to war, winning if he is not recruited and survives the game.
1 Eager Citizen: The eager citizen would be proud to fight for his country, winning if he is recruited and survives the game.
1 Police Chief: The police chief cannot abide by the actions of the extremists and wants them gone.  He can inspect the role of one player per night, and can choose to share the results with the military recruiter via pm (this is the only instance of inter-player pm allowed in the game).  He wins if both protesters die and he survives the game.  He does not know who the military recruiter is.

the mafia have their own quickchat topic, and the soldiers may have their own quickchat topic depending on what people think.

So: opinions?  Suggestions?

[mastahcheese]

It's certainly an interesting concept.

[notquitethere]

I strikes me that for the eager/reluctant citizen, winning is probably wholly a matter of luck.

[4maskwolf]

I strikes me that for the eager/reluctant citizen, winning is probably wholly a matter of luck.

hmm... perhaps change them to survivors and have the eager citizen reveal soldier to the police chief's inspections and the reluctant citizen be immune to becoming a soldier?

[notquitethere]

I think it's somewhat an issue with survivor type roles: there's not much they can do it to increase their chances of winning other than not being lynched.

[Mephansteras]

I think it's somewhat an issue with survivor type roles: there's not much they can do it to increase their chances of winning other than not being lynched.

Hmm, what about a Survivor role with a Redirect power? That way at least the player can try to be crafty and redirect someone they think might try to kill them. It's far from a guarantee, but at least you'd feel much less helpless which should improve how much fun the game is.

[notquitethere]

That's exactly what I played in Vector's Princess game- a survivor with a redirect. I died at night pretty early on (a 'randomly picked' scum kill) and during the day I felt like my play was anti-game as I had an incentive not to really get involved and make enemies.

I guess the thing is, town and scum can still win if they die so they can try to play well without worrying all the time about saving their skin. For a survivor, it's somewhat a matter of chance. Having a redirect helps a little bit. If, due to the set up, a survivor is given more information to work with (and has a disincentive to share) then they might feel more agency over their fate in the game.

[Mephansteras]

Yeah, Survivors need something to give them an edge. It's why my Paranormal survivors get a small tech slot. The personal shield lets them take a hit at night without actually dying, and is usually enough for people to realize they are a survivor and give them a chance to make a deal. Even so, it's not a very popular role to play.

[4maskwolf]

Alright, the Home Front Version 2:
The mechanics of the game are basically the same as normal mafia, no weird lynch mechanics.  The mafia equivalent are the protesters, and they have a nightkill.  The patriots are the town equivalent in this case, but note that this is more out of historical context of protesters being demonized rather than me passing judgement on them.

The roles:
5 vanilla patriots: win when the protesters have been lynched, no special powers
1 patriot organizer: Inspects the loyalty of players, wins when the protesters have been lynched
1 Protester: scumteam, no powers
1 Protest Organizer: scumteam, can inspect loyalty
1 Military Recruiter: The military recruiter can, once per night, recruit another player into the military.  This gives them the soldier status, which makes them turn up "soldier" to any loyalty or role investigations.  The powers and alignments of the players do not change.  He wins if the game ends with all alive players recruited.  If he attempts to recruit the extreme patriot or the extreme protester, however, a firefight ensues and there is a 50-50 chance of either dying.  The foreign spy cannot be recruited, though the military recruiter gets a false positive if he attempts to recruit the spy.  He knows who the police chief is, and the police chief counts as military for the purposes of his wincon.  He shows patriot to inspects.
1 Foreign Spy: The foreign spy can, as a night action, redirect the first ability targeted at one player to another player.  He knows who the protesters are, but cannot speak in the scumchat or use the mafiakill.  He is a protester-ally, winning if the protesters win.  He shows protester to inspects.
1 Extreme Patriot: The extreme patriot wants the foreign spy and the extreme protester dead.  He has a night kill to accomplish this, but loses immediately if he kills a soldier or the military recruiter.  He flips patriot to inspects and wins if the game ends in a town win with the foreign spy and extreme protester dead.
1 Extreme Protester: The extreme protester wants the military recruiter and the extreme patriot dead.  He has a night kill to accomplish this, but immediately loses if he kills a protester or the foreign spy.  He wins if the protesters win and the military recruiter and extreme patriot are dead.  He is not a member of the scumteam, and thus cannot use the mafiakill or talk in the quickchat.  He does not know the identities of the protesters.  He shows protester to inspects.
1 Police Chief: The police chief cannot abide by the actions of the extremists and wants them gone.  He can inspect the role of one player per night (vanilla town or protester shows up vanilla, town and protester cops show up cop), and can choose to share the results with the military recruiter via pm (I will send the pm if told to do so).  He wins if both extremists and the foreign spy are dead at the end of the game, whether or not he is alive.  He does not know who the military recruiter is.  He shows patriot to inspects.

the mafia have their own quickchat topic, naturally.
So: opinions?  Suggestions?

[4maskwolf]

Anybody have any suggestions for this?

[notquitethere]

I think that's a lot more engaging: all the players can still win even if they get themselves killed. Am I right in thinking the scumteam only has two members with the chat?

[Persus13]

If there game has 3 players recruited and the police chief left, does the recruiter win?

[4maskwolf]

Yes, there are two true scum players.
Yes, if those are the surviving players the military recruiter would win.
The game ends when all of the true scum players or all the true town players are dead.