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Author Topic: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review  (Read 218018 times)

Skynet

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Re: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review
« Reply #720 on: January 17, 2021, 12:29:33 pm »

What happens if the SK needs to perform both nightkills for the mafia and the werewolf team on the same night? I guess it doesn't really matter since the only town powers are investigators.
Yeah, since there's no watchers or roleblockers, it doesn't matter who actually get "sent" out to do the scumkills. I would just allow the SK to perform both nightkills.

You could easily pad the game out with a whole load of vanilla townies. I think there should probably be at least two more town players so they have a strict majority over all scum at the game start.

I agree. 2 VT seems like the minimum necessary for the setup to work and give Town a fighting chance that doesn't involve relying on cross-kills. It is possible that we would need more VTs, but 11 roles is already a lot as it is, so let's just stick with 2 VT for now.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review
« Reply #721 on: January 17, 2021, 10:38:26 pm »

So I've been thinking a bit more on my 'everyone gets a daykill' mafia idea. There's a few optimizations that can make it easier on the moderator and more fun on the players.

Point 1: The adoption of a (quite different) phase system. The game is divided into 18 hour 'Safe' phases and 6 hour 'Danger' phases. During the Safe phase, players can vote - but instead of eliminating a player, it's a protection effect - whoever gets the most votes is immune to all daykills during the next Danger phase. Daykill abilities can only be used during the Danger phase. This limitation means the mod doesn't have to be on constantly, ready to process kills. Additionally, only up to 3 kills can be used per Danger phase, and after a kill is used, there's a 1-hour cooldown before another one can be used. (Special abilities can bypass the 3-kill limit and the cooldown limit, but no special ability can break the vote shield or fire a kill during the Safe phase.)

Point 2: Daykills are public by default. This means that anyone who fires a kill without a rare cloaking ability of some kind will be known to be the one who fired the kill.
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webadict

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Re: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review
« Reply #722 on: January 17, 2021, 11:03:14 pm »

There was a version of a "Everyone has Daykills" that existed on Xylbot that I played many moons ago. Instead of a Daykill, all players had a starting health and a gun. Each gun had a reload time, damage amount, etc, and you shot the gun openly, so all players could see how much damage you did, and how much health you lost (but not anything else). Some guns also had secondary effects like setting you on fire that didn't show up openly, but still affected health.

I think, if you wanted to do something with daykills and have it be smaller, that system might work better. Implementing action phases (Say, 1 action every 24 hours, and the ability to queue multiple actions if you were away) would make this a very simple setup, and you could add a lot of options to the game.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review
« Reply #723 on: January 17, 2021, 11:05:42 pm »

... Enter the Gungeon but it's Mafia? Because that sounds hilarious and fun.
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webadict

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Re: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review
« Reply #724 on: January 17, 2021, 11:07:15 pm »

Yes, something similar to the Gungeoneer's Guns from BYOR 15. I actually stole the concept from Xylbot.
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webadict

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Re: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review
« Reply #725 on: January 17, 2021, 11:16:04 pm »

As a small game mode, we could play a modified version of One Night Ultimate Werewolf.
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TricMagic

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Re: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review
« Reply #726 on: January 18, 2021, 10:11:07 am »

As a small game mode, we could play a modified version of One Night Ultimate Werewolf.

Idea.

Many Werewolves, a small Core Town who knows about each other(The mafia in this game). Town wins when they equal the Werewolves. Werewolves are on their own. Town has someone who will kill a werewolf if they are targeted, so they need to be lynched.

Critics?
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webadict

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Re: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review
« Reply #727 on: January 18, 2021, 08:19:24 pm »

So, investigating it further, looks like ONUW is feasible in some situations:

Doppelgangers, Sentinels, Revealers, and Curators are the only roles that cause significant headaches, and if used in the same game, it could be even more unwieldy. These first two roles would encompass a Night Phase A, where they would choose their targets immediately, and then all other actions would happen in Night Phase B. The last two roles technically suffer from having to occur simultaneously, and when combined with the Doppelganger... Well, whatever.

However, there is a bit of beauty to this, as we're less limited by the system, and using some rule changes would allow for an elimination of these issues as well as the usage of some more customized roles.

For those not in the know about One Night Ultimate Werewolf (and the Daybreak expansion), here's all the rules:
Spoiler (click to show/hide)

And here's the roles (as well as a close approximation to role priority):
Spoiler (click to show/hide)
Spoiler: Artifacts (click to show/hide)

So, as a Night action focused game type, it works really well. I think it could be a fun mode to run as a small type.
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review
« Reply #728 on: January 18, 2021, 10:50:23 pm »

Continuing along the idea of setups allowing for small games and such, I've been wondering if there's a way to actually use the Jester alignment in a productive manner.

1 Mafioso
1 Jester
3 Vanilla Townies

If a townie is lynched or the day ends with a no lynch, the mafioso wins. If the day ends with a mafioso lynch, the townies win. If the day ends with a jester lynch, only the jester wins. No hammers are used.

The small catch is that the mafioso gets a 1-shot daykill that can be used after a certain time threshold - if it's a five day long game, perhaps let the mafioso use it after two or three days have passed? The jester doesn't win if they're shot after all, and the mafioso has an incentive to find the jester to avoid risking them getting lynched and thus losing the game.

The end result could be an interesting game that actually gets away with using a jester to good effect? But if there's any flaws in it, let me know.
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4maskwolf

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Re: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review
« Reply #729 on: January 18, 2021, 10:59:19 pm »

Estimated winrate percentages (no daykill):
Mafia 60%
Jester 20%
Town 20%

Estimated winrate percentages (with daykill):
Mafia 56.25%
Jester 18.75%
Town 25%

Caz

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Re: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review
« Reply #730 on: January 19, 2021, 11:16:26 am »

As a small game mode, we could play a modified version of One Night Ultimate Werewolf.

Idea.

Many Werewolves, a small Core Town who knows about each other(The mafia in this game). Town wins when they equal the Werewolves. Werewolves are on their own. Town has someone who will kill a werewolf if they are targeted, so they need to be lynched.

Critics?

...How do the werewolves win? They are basically SKs right?
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TricMagic

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Re: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review
« Reply #731 on: January 19, 2021, 12:43:49 pm »

A Werewolf wins win all other players are dead and they are alive. Town wins when all the werewolves are dead. Due to it' nature, if two werewolves are the last one standing, they both win.
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Skynet

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Re: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review
« Reply #732 on: January 23, 2021, 08:10:01 am »

Continuing along the idea of setups allowing for small games and such, I've been wondering if there's a way to actually use the Jester alignment in a productive manner.

I would do that by having a setup where you only have two factions: Jester-Mafia and Town. The Jester-Mafia wins when all Jester-Mafiosos are lynched. Jester-Mafia must compulsively nightkill. Meanwhile, Town wins when their numbers equal the number of Jester-Mafiosos.

This flips the meta on its head. Jester-Mafiosos must appear to be Town in order to get lynched, which means they have to actually participate instead of just trying to annoy people. Town must identify and lynch those who are most Townie, but by doing so, spare the lives of "scummier" players, which may lead to the Town to accidentally lynch Jester-Mafiosos instead. Jester-Mafia can use its nightkill strategically to get rid of Townie players and make themselves good candidates for a lynch.

I know I saw this setup on Mafiascum, but I don't remember its exact name. If I find out, I'll edit it into this post.

EDIT: Ah, here it is. Vote For Town Mafia, although apparently that setup is Nightless (so I must have misremembered about the Jester-Mafia having a Nightkill).

"Vote For Town Mafia" has generally been called "Reverse Mafia" as well, although that name has also been used for an unrelated setup on the Mafiascum wiki. I'll use "Reverse Mafia" from now on to describe this particular setup (because it's less of a mouthful to say, and because it's the term used more often for this setup).

EDIT 2: Huh. Bay12Games has actually hosted "Reverse Mafia" before, and it seems from my brief reading of the topic that Mafia had a nightkill. And TotalWar had some discussion about a "Reverse Mafia" setup where the mafia had a nightkill as well and had to use it.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2021, 08:42:14 am by Skynet »
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FallacyofUrist

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Re: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review
« Reply #733 on: February 01, 2021, 07:25:00 pm »

One setup I've been pondering is something Tomasque ran a while ago - Exquisite Cops and Robbers. Sadly it didn't run for long, but I love the concept. The players all contribute pieces of roles which are developed step by step into a final product.

What I wonder is how it would be possible to design an improved version of it where the player participation doesn't make it possible to reverse-engineer the roles from information that you shouldn't really have. I for one would love to play a round of a version of this.
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webadict

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Re: Mafia Setup Discussion and Review
« Reply #734 on: February 01, 2021, 10:26:30 pm »

I got bored, and started work on some setup creation modules for Mamobo. I have now created a prototype generator for One Night Ultimate Webwolf setups. Now, I should be able to add in custom weights and requirements to each role, as well as being able to add any custom roles to that setup, and hopefully, I can expand the scope of the setup generation to new types of setups. Eventually.

Just one step towards automating moderation, but I hope it becomes a popular small game format.
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