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Author Topic: TINKER: Miya's Hubris  (Read 109466 times)

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #270 on: April 18, 2014, 07:11:32 am »

Quote
Wait, the one in your arm? Cause that thing ain't a normal laser. It's a really complex adaption that basically has specially made focusing chambers down the length of your arm. It really can't be taken out without being altered substantially.
Hmm. In that case, is there another way of turning the roll for that laser from CON to AUX? Or is there no other option but to upgrade CON if I wanna use the laser better?

Secondly, spawn an neutral avatar, and have it's pilot be killed suddenly. What happens? And if some entities that are hostile or friendly are spawned before pilot death, does the suit recognize the difference, or is it bloody death for all involved?
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piecewise

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #271 on: April 18, 2014, 10:32:23 am »

If I may ask: Steve, why is this information to be withheld from us? It's not like we are convicts anymore, if I recall correctly; it's not like we would - or even could, knowing your all-watching eye - dump the data to the UWM or something. And, it is not like these crystals are in any part connected to the Enigma of field manipulation, right?
So, could you please lift the restrictions and let us play with this technology to our hearts content and to the scientific glory and military might of the ARM? In the end, that's why we have Tinker, isn't it?


Load up the ammo variants used by the rocketrifle and the Sibilus gaussrocket hybrid rifle. To check: are the default variants explosive in both cases? What about special kinds of ammo?

Look up Hazmat suits like those once used by the infamous Men In Black Hazmat Suits of Paracelsus's Sword. What sorts of protection do they offer?

Look up Neotherm and it's properties.


>Black boxes are there for one of two reasons: Secrets or protection. Secrets are rare, protection is more common. Simply put, it would be too dangerous to the integrity of the ship and the surroundings to allow anyone not specially versed and prepared to fool around with the contents. When we leave, simus and her crew may get the opportunity to do so, should they build the facilities, but here and now it is too dangerous.


The rocket rifle is, but, if I remember right, the sibilus isn't explosive by nature. It's basically a gauss shell with rockets. Though making an explosive shell would be quite easy.

Their hazmat suits are mostly what you would call an "anti-status effect" suit. Ie they offer no real physical protection against things like projectiles or the like, but are extremely good at guarding against things like radiation, air borne contaminates, even mindfuckery, assuming it comes through a blockable channel.

Ohhh, that was a long time ago...any specific property? Beyond the fact that it gets stupidly hot?

Quote
Wait, the one in your arm? Cause that thing ain't a normal laser. It's a really complex adaption that basically has specially made focusing chambers down the length of your arm. It really can't be taken out without being altered substantially.
Hmm. In that case, is there another way of turning the roll for that laser from CON to AUX? Or is there no other option but to upgrade CON if I wanna use the laser better?

Secondly, spawn an neutral avatar, and have it's pilot be killed suddenly. What happens? And if some entities that are hostile or friendly are spawned before pilot death, does the suit recognize the difference, or is it bloody death for all involved?


Mechanical arm brace that uses motors to position your arm would work, I should think.

In that instance, in this simulation, nothing seems to happen. Hmm. You've beginning to think that the VR machines don't have a whole lot of accurate information on these things.

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #272 on: April 18, 2014, 02:34:20 pm »

Quote
Mechanical arm brace that uses motors to position your arm would work, I should think.

1) Would this brace hinder other uses of that arm in any way? Could I still punch stuff with it effectively?
2) Can it be turned off without it hindering use of that arm?
3) If turned on, will it turn every role for that arm into an AUX one? (e.g. if I punch a fool with the brace activated, what rolls would that use?)
4)What would it cost?

Quote
In that instance, in this simulation, nothing seems to happen. Hmm. You've beginning to think that the VR machines don't have a whole lot of accurate information on these things.

5)Ask Steve if he has a video that shows what happens when an AoW pilot dies with the suit still intact.
6)If not, ask if he could describe it to me.
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Re: TINKER
« Reply #273 on: April 19, 2014, 02:07:23 am »

I see. Oh well.
On the other hand, shouldn't it be allowed to tinker with it in VR without actually attempting anything on board? Say, if only to gather data to be sent to Hephaestus for real testing?
With Simus's permission perhaps?


What about any kinds of special ammo for the rocketrifle? Like chemical, insendiary, armor-piercing, etc.?

How much does a Hazmat suit cost? Can it be worn over or integrated into the Mk series suits?

How much does Neotherm cost? About how hot does it get? Is it produced on the spot by mixing two other chemicals, as I seem to remember?
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Nikitian kneels in front of his computer, fresh lamb's blood on his hands, and prays to the dark powers for answers about armor thickness.

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #274 on: April 20, 2014, 06:57:47 pm »

((Note: the Sibilus uses the exact same ammo as the standard rocket rifle. I could probably even make a slight modification to allow it to use rocket rifle magazines, though the Sibius magazines are more economical (18.75 rounds/token versus 16.666 repeating rounds/token).

Just more of it. And flung by a gauss field as well as propelled by its own rockets.))
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 07:11:22 pm by PyroDesu »
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Re: TINKER
« Reply #275 on: April 20, 2014, 08:14:54 pm »

((Note: the Sibilus uses the exact same ammo as the standard rocket rifle. I could probably even make a slight modification to allow it to use rocket rifle magazines, though the Sibius magazines are more economical (18.75 rounds/token versus 16.666 repeating rounds/token).

Just more of it. And flung by a gauss field as well as propelled by its own rockets.))


((Honestly, Looking at what the Sibilus actually is, I've started to question why I thought it's such a nice gun.  It damages BS armor, but only with an overcharge shot that has the equivalent of several gauss rifles' power.  It isn't terribly rapid fire, at least as automatics go, and it keeps the rocket portion which I really don't understand now.  I would think the actual amount of thrust they generate would be negligible, plus, why are complex rounds like that cheaper than gauss rifle rounds which are literally just a solid slug of ferromagnetic metal?))

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #276 on: April 20, 2014, 08:18:30 pm »

((@Piecewise
Also on the subject of neotherm so we can make a wiki page and never bother you about it again:
How long does neotherm burn for?
How long do the three chemicals take to fully react?
Does it function in vacuum/require oxygen?))
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Clearly running multiple missions at the same time is a terrible idea.  The epic battle to see which team can cock it up worse has escalated again.

And Larry kinda gets blueballed in all this; just left with a raging bone spear and no where to put it.

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #277 on: April 20, 2014, 08:36:34 pm »

((...

Yeah, that's a mistake on my part (my memory may be good, but far from perfect, yeah?). Nevermind that, then.

As to whether or not it's a nice gun (I think it is, but there are certainly improvements to be made - both from wonky stats it's been given (partially my fault) to the actual design), I'll take that point by point - note that this is all from memory at the moment, I might be completely wrong on a thing or two by accidentally contradicting past me. It can damage BS armor with burst-fire as well as overcharge shots (as well - the normal overcharge shots only use 1 'set' of gauss coils, of 3), and consider that the burst-fire is the default option, as far as I can remember. Or, at least, PW has treated it as the default. As for rapid fire, it loses only to the normal rocket rifle, which has bursts of 5. Laser weapons not included in ROF estimates, of course.

As for the rocket concept itself, it was done in reality. There were two major issues with it: poor accuracy and slow burn times (which meant the bullet was going very slowly as it exited the gun - but at completion of the burn, it was going at speeds equal or, in some cases, better to, normal firearms). The accuracy issue turned out not to be a flaw of the concept - the ammunition used had a manufacturing defect that left it incorrectly stabilized. The Sibilus has solved the second issue, and insofar as ER is concerned, the first doesn't exist (same with some modern attempts to replicate gyrojet guns).))
« Last Edit: April 20, 2014, 09:11:55 pm by PyroDesu »
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Re: TINKER
« Reply #278 on: April 20, 2014, 09:24:05 pm »

First, sorry about how rude my previous post was.  That was uncalled for.


So, nine rounds cracks battlesuit plate, or one round using all three circuits' overcharge.  IIRC, there's five layers to BS plate, and the last two are stronger.  So if you don't damage the gun, sandpapering through the first three layers takes 27 rounds, fired over 4.5 seconds.  Or if you use super-overcharge, it takes only four rounds, but damages the gun to an unknown extent, and takes four times as long as it takes to charge an overcharge (which might be .5 seconds).  Also kicks your arm off unless you're an inhuman monster like Feyri, or have mechanical assistance.

Y'know, someone should really check how many overcharges a gauss rifle can go through without killing itself.  I think it was twenty.  If so, and if an overcharge takes no longer to charge than a normal shot, there's really no purpose to ever firing standard shots.  Few missions need more than twenty shots fired, and all equipment is repaired after the mission's over.

Oh, also, the Sibilus is stated to use rocket rifle ammo in the armory.  No idea why.


@Rapid fire
Yes, it is rapid fire as far as our armory equipment is concerned.  It's just slow in comparison to modern firearms, and I just tend to think in those terms.

...Gauss assault rifles were mentioned in the sharkmist mission.  Nobody has VR tested those yet.  I reaaally want someone to VR test them.

@Gyrojets
Wow, thanks for that link.  Honestly, the only time I've heard about gyrojets previously was borderlands.  Naturally, I assumed they made it up because, well, it's borderlands.

One problem that article doesn't mention is that I'd imagine they're quite bright and obvious, and may even leave a trail.  That's a shining beacon pointing out a soldier's location, which is kinda a really bad thing.

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #279 on: April 20, 2014, 11:12:06 pm »

((Gauss assault rifle wouldnt be all that different to a standard gauss rifle, probably just uses smaller bullets and a staggered energy discharge.

All you need to convert a standard rifle into a ballpup assault rifle is a beefy capacitor and a control circuit to serve as a timer and voltage limiter, both of which can easily be made by repurposing the overcharge circuitry all gauss rifles have.

Keeping the overcharge circuit permanently charged lets you store enough energy for an extra shot or two each time you discharge it, limiting the voltage ensures you dont fire one overpowered shell risking coil deformation and allows you to tweak the coil voltage so that you get the full 3 shot bullpup action, finally the timer keeps the discharges a set time apart allowing for the reload action to occur and also giving the capacitors a small opportunity to soak up more energy.))
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Clearly running multiple missions at the same time is a terrible idea.  The epic battle to see which team can cock it up worse has escalated again.

And Larry kinda gets blueballed in all this; just left with a raging bone spear and no where to put it.

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #280 on: April 20, 2014, 11:52:26 pm »

One of these days Anton will get back into Tinker. I've got a big backlog of interesting projects to try out, a Gauss Assault Cannon being one of them.

Think cyclotron accelerator slash drum magazine.

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #281 on: April 20, 2014, 11:54:19 pm »

One of these days Anton will get back into Tinker. I've got a big backlog of interesting projects to try out, a Gauss Assault Cannon being one of them.

Think cyclotron accelerator slash drum magazine.

Kinda like the coil gun in an Avatar?
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21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #282 on: April 20, 2014, 11:58:13 pm »

One of these days Anton will get back into Tinker. I've got a big backlog of interesting projects to try out, a Gauss Assault Cannon being one of them.

Think cyclotron accelerator slash drum magazine.

Kinda like the coil gun in an Avatar?
Perhaps, though I honestly don't remember if the Avatar coilgun is capable of sustained automatic fire. Or indeed if it features a cyclotron.

A "coilgun" brings to mind a stereotypical kind of videogame railgun, with electromagnetic coils accelerating a projectile along a straight line. The one I'm thinking of... is kinda different.

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #283 on: April 21, 2014, 12:00:38 am »

One of these days Anton will get back into Tinker. I've got a big backlog of interesting projects to try out, a Gauss Assault Cannon being one of them.

Think cyclotron accelerator slash drum magazine.

Kinda like the coil gun in an Avatar?
Perhaps, though I honestly don't remember if the Avatar coilgun is capable of sustained automatic fire. Or indeed if it features a cyclotron.

A "coilgun" brings to mind a stereotypical kind of videogame railgun, with electromagnetic coils accelerating a projectile along a straight line. The one I'm thinking of... is kinda different.

I dunno how that Avatar's gun works, only that it's called coilgun, and that it's a rapid fire gauss cannon. Might wanna look into it, could save you some work.
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Quote from: you know who you are
21:26   <XYZ>: I know nothing about this, but I have strong opinions about it.
Fucking hell, you guys are worse than the demons.

Sean Mirrsen

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Re: TINKER
« Reply #284 on: April 21, 2014, 12:05:32 am »

I think that in case of the Avatar, it's just a regular coilgun, just making use of the considerable power output and natural toughness of the machine, simultaneously avoiding the problems of rail erosion and heating.

Seriously, with the Avatar you could probably have it fire tungsten rebar using an auto-drawn synthflesh bowstring embedded in the arm, and it'd work as well, if not better than a gauss cannon.

My design would be intended for more... personal (as in man-portable) use, and with less egregious power requirements (though with quite a bit of a strength requirement).
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