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Author Topic: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Conical Difficulties  (Read 66219 times)

Aseaheru

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: GWG's Brother Stops Being Filler
« Reply #375 on: March 21, 2014, 04:30:24 pm »

I was on chrome, dragged the image to the newtab area.

Went to the right thing.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: GWG's Brother Stops Being Filler
« Reply #376 on: March 21, 2014, 04:42:05 pm »

Huh. I didn't know Chrome could do that.
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Aseaheru

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: GWG's Brother Stops Being Filler
« Reply #377 on: March 21, 2014, 04:58:15 pm »

I was surprised too. I knew firefox could do it, but dident know chrome could.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: GWG's Brother Stops Being Filler
« Reply #378 on: March 21, 2014, 11:01:25 pm »

Alright, I'm sorry about not updating today. I didn't have as much time as I'd hoped, I wasted a good chunk of it, and preparations for the next bit are taking an unexpected amount of time.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: GWG's Brother Stops Being Filler
« Reply #379 on: March 22, 2014, 07:28:56 pm »

We've recruited a number of new partners to further our space stuff. Kyle "Kickass" Kerman of KW Rocketry has donated some designs for potential parts; Fractal "UK" Kerman, an author trained in astrophysics, has suggested some potential technologies for the far future; and Iannic Ann Od Kerman has given us good radios. With these tools, we should be better-off than ever before!

After dealing with those, and spending an absurd amount of time with something to be discussed later, we launch a communication satellite. Okay, before that, I spend some time in the Research Center clicking on research nodes so I can get the cool stuff from already-researched techs. But once that's done, we have some new engines, fuel tanks for stuff I don't think we have yet, fairings, and assorted miscellany. We don't use them while designing the satellite, which has a problem.


Hm...we need to research *checks wiki* whatever unknown technology unlocks radiators ASAP.

Well, let's see how far the strategy of "cross our fingers and hope nothing explodes (or if it does, it's far away from KSSC when it happens)" goes, and look at the final launcher.


Many parts are from KW Rocketry.

This is intended for final insertion. The next stage is supposed to nudge it from LKO to KSO.


Due to a quirk of something, it has a lower delta-v than the upper stage. Ah well, the top one's just overengineered.

The next stage (a lot of fuel plus four LV-T45 engines) is supposed to finish getting us to orbit. The first jump is to be done...


Hi! Remember us?

...via jet engine.

Anyways, let's get our satellite up into orbit. We're launching at night, which will make things...interesting.
...Why isn't it moving?
Okay, let's add more jets. Minor issue!

The new version has a Thrust:Weight ratio of about 1.11, which is plenty to lift off. Well, it's enough. Once the engines get up and running. Probably.


Is this a problem?

Unless the engines explode before takeoff. Or simply don't generate as much thrust as the mechanical Jeb says they will.
Well, new model.


We added more jet boosters. TWR: 1.15.

Here we go.
And what's this? Not much...


Just missing a perfect chance to screenshot a massive explosion thanks to Lightshot's slow upload speed.

Take two. Because we had to get a picture of the explosion. Only one engine fell off this time. Of course, right after this shot, a better explosion happened...

And now for the--hey, nothing fell off this time! What gives? It's not falling over, it's--CRAP GOTTA FLY THIS CRAZY THING!


Takeoff is painfully slow. Perhaps that second stage was overly large?
...It's really slow.


Almost a minute after we left the ground. If there was any crew onboard, they would be bored out of their skulls.

We're burning about a few kilograms of fuel every second, or about one every RL second. The TWR will get better. A minute sixteen seconds into the launch, we're down to 106 tons! That's good.
Two minutes. 4500 meters. Despite dropping fuel, our TWR ratio has dropped! The efficiency just keeps dropping. If our vertical velocity starts dropping, I'm ditching these things.
Well, we're getting some perspective.


Not so far from base.

Three minutes. 8700 meters. We're moving at a good pace now. TWR: 1.13. Fifteen seconds later, we hit 10,000 meters and need to begin the gravity turn. The turn is slow and clumsy. Moreover, as I turn, I begin to lose vertical speed. I reorient vertically. By the time I manage this, about 60-70% of our speed is horizontal.
Four minutes. 13,300 meters. The engines start making a funny noise within a second of the minute mark. We begin to lose vertical speed, so I ditch the engines. TWR 1.11 right before, 0.97 right after. I decide I can stand to burn vertically for a bit, until the fuel load drops enough to improve that ratio. And it's dropping fast, from 83.5 tons to 83 in under 10 seconds. Around 4:20, the TWR gets above one, so I'm about ready to start the gravity turn. I can only turn it a little, though. This is not an efficient ascent.
Five minutes. 18,400 meters. TWR 1.13. We're getting to first-stage levels of lift. I'm reminded of a note Scott Manley made that many upper stages started out with a TWR ratio just above 1 or something like that, in real-life space programs. I wonder if the TWR's tended to go up or down with stage. I could probably research this during the ascent if I wasn't busy micromanaging a rocket. Fuel's half-gone. I start to wonder if I should have gone at less than 100% throttle to start this stage with, but the air is too rarefied for it to really matter by the time the thought comes up.
5:20. 22,100 meters. TWR 1.24, mass 65,608 kilograms. Maybe 20-25% fuel in this stage. I'm worried about if I have enough delta-v to put this into orbit. MechJeb says I have a bit over 2500 m/s (in vacuum, almost 400 m/s less in atmosphere), but how much do I need to get from my current trajectory to orbit?
At 5:55, I eject my next stage to discover that my penultimate stage has a TWR of 0.34. That is...not good. I'm at a (three-kilogram mass of) hair under 15 tons, a (three-meter long) hair above 26,750 meters, with a total surface speed a bit over 373 m/s and a projected apoapsis under 30 kilometers. I shift from my maybe 15-degree turn to vertical, to preserve vertical velocity as much as possible. I'm not going to space today, but I might as well...oh, who am I kidding.


Or I could turn off the thrust and watch it crash into the ocean...but I'm not in the mood.

So. Unsuccessful. Which means that you don't get to find out what I wasted half my morning trying to add.
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MarcAFK

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Not A Promising Start
« Reply #380 on: March 23, 2014, 12:48:04 am »

Sadness, btw which mod adds that thermal dissipation mechanic?
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tahujdt

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Not A Promising Start
« Reply #381 on: March 23, 2014, 08:08:44 am »

I use KSP Interstellar, which I assume is what he's using.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Not A Promising Start
« Reply #382 on: March 23, 2014, 03:51:52 pm »

I use KSP Interstellar, which I assume is what he's using.
Precisely.
I can add the radiators in sandbox, so they're there, but I'm not sure how to get them in Career Mode. And the KSP Interstellar wiki isn't helping me there...

Anyways. I'll get an update out with a less overbuilt satellite launcher later today.
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BFEL

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Not A Promising Start
« Reply #383 on: March 23, 2014, 05:46:34 pm »

I use KSP Interstellar, which I assume is what he's using.
Precisely.
I can add the radiators in sandbox, so they're there, but I'm not sure how to get them in Career Mode. And the KSP Interstellar wiki isn't helping me there...

Anyways. I'll get an update out with a less overbuilt satellite launcher later today.

Er...did you start a new game file? Because I'm pretty sure interstellar tech tree is different like that.
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tahujdt

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Not A Promising Start
« Reply #384 on: March 23, 2014, 06:16:51 pm »

Ya gotta go back through the tech tree,  look for any researched techs that still have numbers above them, click on them, look at the parts discovered, and click on any that are not indented, then click research. You won't need to spend any extra points, though.
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BigD145

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Not A Promising Start
« Reply #385 on: March 23, 2014, 06:28:18 pm »

Interstellar has its own tech tree, which is another mod distributed with Interstellar. It has its own folder. You also have to activate any mod parts added after unlocking a tech tree node.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Not A Promising Start
« Reply #386 on: March 23, 2014, 07:07:54 pm »

I spend some time fiddling with fairings around my satellite before getting down to business. The last stage, carrying just the satellite, is capable of 2475 m/s of Δv according to Mechjeb, and it's just a hundred units of liquid fuel, sufficient oxidizer, a Vesta rocket, and of course the payload. The next, with a larger rocket and more fuel, manages 2,325. Between then, we have 4,800 m/s of Δv. This is enough to get into LKO with some fuel to spare. Getting to GKO will be a bit tougher, so we add some slender solid rocket boosters. We should have enough to get into (or at least near) GKO.

So, we're launching.


So elegant. So simple. So beautiful. So...un-Kerbal.

There is a slight problem during launch; the solid boosters evidently didn't end up properly attached to the decouplers (or, rather, unattached to not-decouplers). I fiddle with throttle to keep from wasting fuel on drag. Soon enough, the time comes for the gravity turn. Pointing 45 degrees from vertical and throttling back up to max, I eye the Apoapsis and Time to Apoapsis. A bit after 24 kilometers, that stage runs dry and we're on to our last stage already...still, before 34 kilometers, the apoapsis reaches 80, and we coast and prepare a maneuver node, impeded by the fact that the orbiting former home of Jebediah is in the way. We'll be coming within a few hundred kilometers after orbital insertion, which will require less than 520 m/s of Δv.
We overburn a little, but not much.


Not quite as circular as intended, but I hardly think that's important. I got something into orbit, easily. And that matters.

I get the remainder of the spacecraft spinning, then decouple half of the fairing. This makes the spin rather less nice, so it's a bit of a chore to eject the other half. Still, they're gone, and MechJeb can fix the rotation. This buys us over a hundred m/s of Δv, so it's worth it. (Also, it exposes the solar panels.) According to MechJeb, we have 861 m/s of Δv left; it takes ~800 to ascend from an 80-kilometer orbit to a KSO. I plot a maneuver to bring us into an elliptical orbit with a high enough apoapsis and an essentially unchanged periapsis; this will take 645 m/s of our Δv. Hm, not quite reassurring...I eventually get a second node close enough for jazz, hoping I'll have enough Δv. This mode was a lot more touchy, maybe that means it takes less fuel?


We're falling behind on our Pretty Picture Quota (PPQ).

Oh, look, the Mun! Quick, take a picture!


I adjust the Chatterer settings while waiting for the node to come up. Then, moving at 2.3 km/s, we accelerate to nearly 3 km/s. I fiddle with the maneuver node some before realizing that there's no way the ~430 m/s burn could be done with the 216 m/s of Δv we have left. After much fiddling, I make a burn that will produce an orbit nothing like circular, but hey it's our first satellite so cut us some slack.


Let's see how this goes.

But first...we wait.

And wait.

And wait.

And wait.

And pretend we're going to the Mun. Mostly, we wait.

These are nice pictures, though.


We finally burn into orbit. Between the burn and the ejection of the stage, we manage to get into the following orbit:


Only 3.3 m/s short, too. Damn good ejection system.

Thank you, rapidly-vanishing chunk of space junk!


The tranceiver is picking up signals we send to it. Doubtless, this will be useful once we get more up. Well, maybe. One issue is that it's picking up interference from the Mun--not much, but some.

We need two things, now that the communication satellite is in orbit:
1. A name for it!
2. A new goal! Do we still want to try shooting for Minmus, or do we want to do a Kerbal science plane, or do we want a space station, or what?


Er...did you start a new game file? Because I'm pretty sure interstellar tech tree is different like that.
No, I didn't. ...Phooey.

Ya gotta go back through the tech tree,  look for any researched techs that still have numbers above them, click on them, look at the parts discovered, and click on any that are not indented, then click research. You won't need to spend any extra points, though.
I did that already.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Somewhat More Promising
« Reply #387 on: March 24, 2014, 09:26:19 am »

A new goal really would be nice...
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tahujdt

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Somewhat More Promising
« Reply #388 on: March 24, 2014, 10:00:06 am »

Install a life support mod and build a self-sufficient space station.
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GreatWyrmGold

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Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Somewhat More Promising
« Reply #389 on: March 24, 2014, 11:29:20 am »

Any suggestions as to the mod?
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