Bay 12 Games Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 18 19 ... 39

Author Topic: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Conical Difficulties  (Read 40910 times)

Sentient Bowtie

  • Bay Watcher
  • ...For that is your fate. The fate of the cursed.
    • View Profile
Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Ladderal Thinking
« Reply #240 on: March 04, 2014, 04:04:18 pm »

Can't you just jump?
Lower gravity, remeber?
Logged
So far two babies have been born as a result from all the close action in the barracks.
You can't fuck a cartoon because cartoons are in two dimensions and you'd slice your dick off due to having touched the incredibly slight area of contact with any amount of force.

Aseaheru

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cursed by the Elves with a title.
    • View Profile
Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Ladderal Thinking
« Reply #241 on: March 04, 2014, 04:49:17 pm »

The lab wont be entirely useful until we get docking ports. And ladders arent needed on minimus. I think you can reach orbit with a RCS pack there.
Logged
Voted SpearBreakers Meatpieologist by Mr Frog
DADeathinacan has Videos
Thanks to Towerdude for the avatar.
An Indeterminate Arms Race, where the players choose to be cults with technological artifacts alone in the world.

Warning, may appear to be angrier than intended

GreatWyrmGold

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sane, by the local standards.
    • View Profile
Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Ladderal Thinking
« Reply #242 on: March 04, 2014, 05:09:36 pm »

The lab wont be entirely useful until we get docking ports.
Can't it work on things in the same spacecraft, even without ports in between?

Quote
And ladders arent needed on minimus. I think you can reach orbit with a RCS pack there.
Can't you just jump?
Lower gravity, remeber?
And jumping is so inaccurate. Why go with the simple, clumsy solution when you can have a complex, elegant, engineering-ey solution?
You guys aren't the first geniuses to think to ask that. Read the thread.

Now for the update.


We design a new Minmushot, going to the old "complete redesign" angle. As always, we work backwards. First the Kerbin landing pod:


Complete with stuff!

Next, a pair of adorable little rocket stages for getting off Minmus.


What is this "overkill" you speak of? ..."Too heavy to fly," we have heard of.

Third is the landing stage:


Capable of performing no fewer than sixteen science experiments right then and there, the Minmushot III's landing stage is the most powerful laboratory ever built by the KSSP. And one of the largest in the world that hasn't exploded yet. And the best-heated!

Penultimately, the orbit-to-Minmus rocket stage:


Also note the weird phantom dot.

And finally, the Kerbin-to-orbit stage, with four discardable solid fuel boosters.


Is there any other kind?

We hire a couple volunteers to work in the lab, choosing them based on meeting important mission criteria.


"Why yes, I'd LOVE to live in space!"

The launch starts. The thing begins leaning southwards. Fast.


Note to self: Include a "decouple last decoupler" button in future designs.

We head back and add some stabilizing fins.


Twelve of them, because if there's one thing I overdo it's failed attempts at safety! ...Wait, that came out wrong.

So we launch again. We start leaning...east.

(Note to self: Put happy Bob picture here.)
"Excellent. We're starting the gravity turn early, I suppose?"

Soon, the tilt starts going crazy.


"Not optimal."

I start throttling back, remembering Scott's advice to keep speed below 200 m/s in the lower atmosphere. Sadly, pitch, yaw, and roll are all bonkers.


"Ground Control, there is a large orange-and-blue sphere hanging in the air behind my spacecraft! Also I am outside the craft while being inside it! Or something like that!"

I drop the (empty) solid fuel boosters, but the rocket continues to not maneuver well.

We're basically horizontal, almost out of fuel in our first stage, at 5000 meters, and running out of time to get to dinner and the evening class, so...launch aborted, sorry to cut you short here.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 05:54:06 pm by GreatWyrmGold »
Logged
Sig
Are you a GM with players who haven't posted? TheDelinquent Players Help will have Bay12 give you an action!
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

Aseaheru

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cursed by the Elves with a title.
    • View Profile
Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Stop! Dinnertime.
« Reply #243 on: March 04, 2014, 05:25:42 pm »

Yes, it will work on the same craft. Good work on getting the experiments to work with all that.
Logged
Voted SpearBreakers Meatpieologist by Mr Frog
DADeathinacan has Videos
Thanks to Towerdude for the avatar.
An Indeterminate Arms Race, where the players choose to be cults with technological artifacts alone in the world.

Warning, may appear to be angrier than intended

GreatWyrmGold

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sane, by the local standards.
    • View Profile
Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Stop! Dinnertime.
« Reply #244 on: March 04, 2014, 05:55:51 pm »

The experiments are all linked to one button (0). What issue is there?
Logged
Sig
Are you a GM with players who haven't posted? TheDelinquent Players Help will have Bay12 give you an action!
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

Aseaheru

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cursed by the Elves with a title.
    • View Profile
Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Stop! Dinnertime.
« Reply #245 on: March 04, 2014, 06:01:46 pm »

With the lab...
Logged
Voted SpearBreakers Meatpieologist by Mr Frog
DADeathinacan has Videos
Thanks to Towerdude for the avatar.
An Indeterminate Arms Race, where the players choose to be cults with technological artifacts alone in the world.

Warning, may appear to be angrier than intended

GreatWyrmGold

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sane, by the local standards.
    • View Profile
Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Stop! Dinnertime.
« Reply #246 on: March 04, 2014, 06:49:25 pm »

I'm starting to suspect I don't understand the lab...
Logged
Sig
Are you a GM with players who haven't posted? TheDelinquent Players Help will have Bay12 give you an action!
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

Aseaheru

  • Bay Watcher
  • Cursed by the Elves with a title.
    • View Profile
Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Stop! Dinnertime.
« Reply #247 on: March 04, 2014, 08:10:44 pm »

Well, its good for an orbiter that has a lander landing, returning, transmitting and repeating.

Really though? Its not good for too much. Atleast not for close in work where you can just return fairly quickly.
Logged
Voted SpearBreakers Meatpieologist by Mr Frog
DADeathinacan has Videos
Thanks to Towerdude for the avatar.
An Indeterminate Arms Race, where the players choose to be cults with technological artifacts alone in the world.

Warning, may appear to be angrier than intended

BigD145

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Stop! Dinnertime.
« Reply #248 on: March 04, 2014, 09:15:35 pm »

The lab can boost research (the two colored bars you see) a tad before beaming or physically shipping back reports and can reset experiments that become inoperable if you beam or take reports from them. It's a big refiner and reseter. It reduces the number of trips needed to fully mine science from a body. It has two best uses: orbital station or land station on a body with atmosphere.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2014, 09:18:08 pm by BigD145 »
Logged

GreatWyrmGold

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sane, by the local standards.
    • View Profile
Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Stop! Dinnertime.
« Reply #249 on: March 04, 2014, 11:07:01 pm »

Why with atmosphere?
Logged
Sig
Are you a GM with players who haven't posted? TheDelinquent Players Help will have Bay12 give you an action!
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

BFEL

  • Bay Watcher
  • Tail of a stinging scorpion scourge
    • View Profile
Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Stop! Dinnertime.
« Reply #250 on: March 05, 2014, 07:43:23 am »

Why with atmosphere?
Because its not gonna come back from there! :P

Anyway, let me show you why I prevoted for aerodynamics:

Spoiler: It makes orbit easy (click to show/hide)

The jets get you up to 10000 meters, and the SRBs will get your apoapsis farther then you actually need it to be. By the time I reach orbit with the massive top stage, I still have about half fuel in it.

Jets are CRAZY.

And THIS:

Spoiler: This (click to show/hide)

Is the Hecate III, which got me to the Mun and back. I REALLY should have changed the configuration of the jet engines, because the "billiards rack" formation made the first stage rotate like crazy, but I thought "style points" and went with it.

I'm really proud of the lander design, simple and elegant.
The first real rocket stage is crossfed to the middle rocket, meaning I didn't have to use the lander's fuel until I was orbiting the Mun.

Basically, you don't need stupidhueg stages, just a eye for elegant design.
Logged
7/10 Has much more memorable sigs but casts them to the realm of sigtexts.

Indeed, I do this.

BigD145

  • Bay Watcher
    • View Profile
Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Stop! Dinnertime.
« Reply #251 on: March 05, 2014, 08:51:48 am »

Why with atmosphere?

It's difficult to get a craft off planet through atmosphere so you maximize your research, take the reports into a small and efficient craft, then leave.

Without atmosphere you can jump back and forth with a craft and refuel and reset experiments in orbit.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2014, 08:54:14 am by BigD145 »
Logged

BFEL

  • Bay Watcher
  • Tail of a stinging scorpion scourge
    • View Profile
Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Stop! Dinnertime.
« Reply #252 on: March 05, 2014, 05:20:22 pm »

OK, GWG I gave you some bad advice and feel I need to correct that.

When you are doing a rendezvous/docking scenario and have your target selected the lavender DOESN'T move you relative to your target, the normal prograde/retrograde markers do that.

I actually have no idea what the hell the pink things are for now :P
Logged
7/10 Has much more memorable sigs but casts them to the realm of sigtexts.

Indeed, I do this.

GreatWyrmGold

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sane, by the local standards.
    • View Profile
Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Stop! Dinnertime.
« Reply #253 on: March 05, 2014, 07:44:31 pm »

I am very confused.
Logged
Sig
Are you a GM with players who haven't posted? TheDelinquent Players Help will have Bay12 give you an action!
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.

GreatWyrmGold

  • Bay Watcher
  • Sane, by the local standards.
    • View Profile
Re: (KSP LP) Bay12 Space Program: Stop! Dinnertime.
« Reply #254 on: March 05, 2014, 10:00:59 pm »

So. Where were we...right, Minmushot.


The Minmushot IV has a number of changes, to both the lander stage and the initial taking-off stage.


The landing lab, smaller than the Minmushot III's lab but 100% automated, rather than merely 50% automated, and also lighter.

The landing stage is different. It has six each of mysterious goo and Science Jrs, which can all be activated with the push of a button! It is also capable of standing up in Kerbin gravity, so it should be good landing on Minmus.


The initial booster, with its disposable rockets.

The first stage also underwent an overhaul, losing the solid fuel boosters and replacing them with liquid fuel boosters. Whoo!

Right before launch, someone decided to install nine solar panels just in case charge ran low.


Daring.

The Minmushot IV is ready for launch!


Huh.

It is also leaning a lot. Thankfully, thrust vectoring allows us to more easily straighten the rocket.
In theory.


Pictured: Practice.

"Ground Control, we are activating all tests now. Preparing to jettison lower stages..."

"Ground Control, this plan is not working out as intended."

"Oh my."


The Minmus-takeoff stage clung to the Kerbin lander for a while. Then the solid fuel booster exploded. Spinning the capsule with its reaction wheels was attempted.


It worked.

The Minmushot Kerbin Lander's dual-parachute system.

The lander can also be righted.


I discover that, for some reason, you can only log temperature once. Wha?

Anyways, we need to redesign the Minmushot.


Pictured: Redesign.

The first stage is made less unwieldy by replacing the three vertically-stacked T400 fuel tanks with two vertically stacked T400's and half a dozen T200's arranged in a circle around the top of the stage. It also adds four struts, changes the raidal decouplers from TT-38K's to TT-70's. A last-second idea was to add parachutes to the disposeable rocket boosters, both to help avoid collisions with the T200's and to allow potential recovery. We may be able to get this thing to Minmus.

We launch. Sadly, we soon start tilting south, and thrust vectoring isn't helping!


Yes, the screenshot sucks. Well excuse me for not taking professional-grade screenshots while my rocket is crashing!

BEACH PARTY!


We land and add some fins. While we're here, we apply the "out, not up" principle to the second (?) stage.


Is it possible to have too many fins? Of course not!

I take a moment to delete Minmushot and SciMax I-III, and then launch the Minmushot Mk IVc. Which is better than trying to launch the Minmushot IRC, although the latter would rid the kinternet of many krolls.
This time, we take off straight as an arrow!


"T+10 seconds, and nothing has gone wrong. If experience is a guide, things will start exploding shortly."

We are, however, spinning slightly.
We eject the boosters. Their parachutes do not deploy.


Sadly, this does not halt the zeal of the children whose parents brought them here on a "recoverable rocket booster hunt". We're still not sure who authorized that event.

Moments thereafter, the main First Stage engine is ejected. Unfortunately, we seem to be falling.


Strangely, "Rocket falling out of sky" is the least bad explanation for all the smoke.

The five LV-909 engines cannot lift the weight of the remainder of the spacecraft! We are still running all engines at full tilt, hoping to at least slow our inevitable fall.
The four landing LV-909's run out of fuel; we eject the next stage, which is still mostly full of fuel. Note to self: That was terrible staging.
Speaking of staging, we eject further stages.


Pictured: Fewer rocket bits to squash eager children. Progress!

Alright. I suspect it's time for a redesign. Problems: The lower stages aren't strong enough to reach orbit, the upper stages may be too heavy.

First, the Kerbal Lander stage.


This will land on Kerbin. Unless it explodes first.

Next, the Minmus-To-Kerbin stage. One FV-400, one LV-909, and a lot of hope.


A nice little rocket...but then, Minmus is a nice little moon.

Next, the Lander Stage. The Autolab is only 2/3 the six of that of the Minmushot IV, but it is also a lot lighter.


Now with only three landing legs!

Not next but...um..fourth? The next stage is the Ke-Mi stage.


One engine, (hopefully) plenty of fuel.

Penultimately, the Orbital Stage.


Now that could be an excess amount of fuel. Probably not, though.

Finally, the Liftoff Stage.


Now to finally launch this crime against common sense.

The moment physics start applying again, the rocket sits down and begins shimmying up and down. I add some more struts.


"More struts." The Internet hath taught me well.
Mind, it's still swaying...


We attempt to launch, but the liquid rockets don't fire and the solid boosters aren't strong enough on their own. We redesign, adding decouplers cushions to the underside of the engines.
The rocket now takes off...very very slowly. As fuel is burned off, we start to accelerate.


"Are--Are you sure the altimeter is right?"

The solid boosters run...um...not dry, because the fuel isn't liquid, but you know...empty at 1600 meters. Our speed immediately begins to fall. When it hits a minimum, we drop that stage and move onto the next one. We probably should have turned off the engines first.


"Strange. The side window is more informative as to the nature of these disasters than the main one..."

We begin having control problems, in that we can't control the direction of our rocket. Time to hit x and hammer spaceb--oh, we crashed.

...

The Minmushot VI has fewer fuel tanks, six boosters, and a special "Eject" button that flings off the capsule.

So. Another launch. It goes well; we lean a bit south and west, but it's nothing holding down the s and d keys doesn't solve. The boosters are released a bit after five kilometers, throttle is dialed back to 2/3 to avoid wasting fuel fighting air resistance, the craft rights itself, and I realize we're going backwards again. Even at full throttle.

It's not all bad news, though.


Escape: Now with 87% fewer explosions!

Well, only 54% fewer, but 87% fewer that hurt you.


Landing is good. We land right next to a chunk of debris from the lander.


I met a gamer from a distant site
Who said: 'One small square girder, made of steel,
Stand on the shoreline. Near them, on the grass
Half gone, a shattered spacecraft lies, whose size
And wild struts, and smear of rocket fuel,
Tell that its builder poor those sciences read.
Some yet have died, smashed in these lifeless things,
The hand that marked them and the hope that fled.
And on the rocket these words appear:

Nothing beside remains. Round the rusting
Of that colossal wreck, boundless and bare,
Save for the buildings, not far away."


I pick up Bob and the capsule, then decide that I've probably done enough for tonight. Two hours of failure. Although I might as well clean up.


Quiz time! Who can well what spacecraft this landing pod is from?
Logged
Sig
Are you a GM with players who haven't posted? TheDelinquent Players Help will have Bay12 give you an action!
[GreatWyrmGold] gets a little crown. May it forever be his mark of Cain; let no one argue pointless subjects with him lest they receive the same.
Pages: 1 ... 15 16 [17] 18 19 ... 39