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Author Topic: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix  (Read 201749 times)

Crazy Horse

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Re: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix
« Reply #105 on: July 25, 2014, 12:25:58 am »

I generally don't get excited about unfinished games these days (or even any game for that matter) but this project looks incredible. It has always amazed me that so little is done these days in such an awesome yet title starved genre as hex combat as well as the squad-based tactical genre. Here's to your game bringing some more success back into the genre!

« Last Edit: July 25, 2014, 12:42:58 am by Crazy Horse »
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Jaysen

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Re: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix
« Reply #106 on: July 25, 2014, 02:26:31 am »

We thought the same thing when coming up with the idea for the game a couple of years back and i think there is still a big audience out there that would love a game like that. However, there is still a huge amount of work ahead of us in the project.

Thanks a bunch for the nice words, keeps us going!
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Jaysen

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Re: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix
« Reply #107 on: July 28, 2014, 04:41:20 am »

We spent some time on tweaking the tactical combat a little more and while doing that did a complete overhaul of the morale system. We think its way better and more accessible now - read all about it in the dev blog entry below:


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Dev Blog #20: Bravery and Morale

Morale was a major and often deciding factor in real medieval battles. Not every battle was fought to the death, and instead, tactics often revolved around crushing the morale and organization of the opposition and to scatter them as a means to win a battle. In Battle Brothers we aim to simulate morale as the important factor it is. Indeed, if you’ve played our tactical combat demo, you’ll know that we already have a morale system in place. However, it didn’t turn out all what we wanted it to be, so we decided to do a complete rework. Read all about how the new morale system works below.

Our Goals

So what do we want our morale system to be?

Most importantly, we want morale to be something that is easy to read and utilize for you, the player. Our new system therefore follows a clear pattern of there always being an action with an intuitive gravity to it, like an opponent being slain, and a following reaction in the way of morale changing. For morale to be easy to read, there should be a clear continuum of different descriptive states of morale, allowing the player to see at a glance how everyone is doing, to act in time, before any Battle Brother mentally breaks, and to understand why anyone would flee when they do.

Secondly, morale should be an important gameplay element that both the player and the AI could actively use as a means to achieve victory. To this end, some enemies will employ psychological attacks, like instilling fear and terror, to reduce a Battle Brother’s combat effectiveness and even have him flee, instead of merely attacking them physically. Likewise, the player should be able to press on the flank that has opponents with low morale in order to scatter them, and to reach and kill the opponent’s leader in order to send the opposition into disarray. Considering the morale of Battle Brothers should be equally important for the player, with veteran warriors more likely to hold the front line than recruits as losses begin to mount.

With our goals established, let’s see how it works in practice.

Bravery

The key character attribute for all morale related checks is called “bravery”, a measure for overall mental strength and how well a character can keep their confidence and calm when things turn sour. The amount of bravery can vary strongly between characters and opponents as some are more faint hearted while others won’t flinch even in the most desperate of situations - undead enemies even are immune to morale effects altogether. Many of our character backgrounds and traits also directly or indirectly affect a character’s bravery. Like most other attributes, bravery can be increased on level-up to make a character more resilient against all kinds of psychological effects, and some of the perks the player can choose will also open up new tactical options regarding morale.


(Battle Brothers in different morale states during a heavy fight.)

Morale States

No longer is morale a large abstract number changing every turn. Instead, every character is at one of just five distinct states of morale. Characters start out with their morale at “steady” and can change their state either on failing or passing a morale check. The five morale states are as follows:

Confident (+1)

The character is confident that their side will win the engagement and he or she will survive the day, receiving a bonus to hit chance and defense.

Steady (0)

The character is prepared for battle and in a steady state of mind. This state has no effect on combat performance.

Wavering (-1)

There is something unsettling about how the combat is developing. Things are looking a little grim and the character is insecure about which side will win. This state reduces combat efficiency slightly and also gives a malus to following morale checks.

Breaking (-2)

Things are going downhill fast, the character is almost sure that the fight is lost, whether personally or as a whole, but is still hanging on. This state reduces combat efficiency significantly and makes it more likely for the character to fail the next negative check and decide to flee from battle.

Fleeing (-3)

The character decided to turn tail and run from combat to save their life. He or she can’t take any actions and will attempt to move away from all visible enemies as fast as possible. Given some distance to the nearest enemy, there is a chance each turn of rallying again by passing a morale check. If the check is passed, the character will be returned to a “wavering” morale state and can then act normal again.


Morale Checks

On certain events, all characters - Battle Brothers and enemies alike - have to pass a morale check. There are two kinds of morale checks: Positive and negative checks.

Negative checks challenge the bravery of a character in light of a psychological straining event and if not passed will set their morale state one lower. For example, witnessing an ally being cut down will trigger a negative morale check. All checks are a dice roll against a character’s bravery attribute, the difficulty depending on the severeness of the event that caused the check. Generally, the more powerful a character is and the closer he is to his allies, the more impact his death has on everyone’s morale, and therefore the higher the morale check difficulty will be in case he is killed. Another common event triggering a negative morale check is receiving heavy wounds in combat. Less determined fighters, those with a low bravery attribute, may choose to turn tail and run away, while more determined fighters will choose to stay in line.

Vice versa there are positive morale checks that, if passed, will increase the morale state of a character. These may be caused, for example, by an opponent getting slain. Again, the difficulty of the morale check depends on how powerful and how close the opponent was - a Goblin Chieftain being slain is much more likely to improve everyone’s morale than a random goblin out of a dozen more. Positive morale checks can even lead to characters feeling confident about the battle, receiving slight combat boni that represent their belief in winning the engagement and surviving the day.

 
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Greenbane

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Re: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix
« Reply #108 on: July 28, 2014, 12:50:28 pm »

I've been following this for a little while, and I've to say it looks quite awesome. Something like Mount & Blade meets X-COM! :)
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Crazy Horse

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Re: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix
« Reply #109 on: July 28, 2014, 03:57:21 pm »

 "..Again, the difficulty of the morale check depends on how powerful and how close the opponent was - a Goblin Chieftain being slain is much more likely to improve everyone’s morale than a random goblin out of a dozen more. Positive morale checks can even lead to characters feeling confident about the battle, receiving slight combat boni that represent their belief in winning the engagement and surviving the day."

I like this. Sounds like it can lead to a situation where you can hold firm the wavering morale of your battle line by successfully making a desperate charge at an enemy champion.

Lots of games have morale systems but few seem to take unit losses by importance into account. Total War series is one of the few I can think of, in Medieval Total War 1 anyway an elite unit breaking can cause a chain rout similar to a generals death.
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Jaysen

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Re: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix
« Reply #110 on: July 29, 2014, 02:57:33 am »

The total war series is actually one of my favorite game series out there (with medieval 1 being the best, obviously ;) ). I really like how they captured the importance of morale in combat but they are always on a really thin edge as it is often way to easy to rout and cut down an entire army. This is why we are very aware of the potentially devastating chain-effects that morale can have.
To ease the impact a little and give the player the chance to make a comeback from a desperate situation, we also want to include ways of improving morale by a daring maneuver, just like you mentioned.
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Crazy Horse

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Re: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix
« Reply #111 on: July 29, 2014, 02:13:09 pm »

Yep, Medieval 1 will bring the fondest memories of the series for me. The music and hand-drawn description portraits of units were a great setter for the gritty theme.  :)

Was nice to see Battle Brothers get covered in a Rock, Paper, Shotgun article yesterday.
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Jaysen

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Re: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix
« Reply #112 on: August 01, 2014, 07:35:59 am »

Yes, that mentioning brought a lot of attention to the project, although there was no picture within the article ; )

Anyways, check out the new enemies we designed for the undead faction:

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Dev Blog #21: Ghosts ‘n Ghouls



The undead are the first major faction we presented you out of several more that we have planned. It is also the faction featured in our tactical combat demo. Today, we’ll present you the two latest additions to our undead roster.

A major consideration when designing any opponents is to have them add some unique gameplay element so that fighting them feels distinct from any other opponents. We feel that having different challenges in combat is essential in a combat-heavy game as ours, and for this reason our newest additions of course have their own set of skills and AI behavior that should challenge the player to adapt in order to survive.

Let’s see what we’ve come up with..



Lost Souls

Just last week we’ve talked about morale and psychological warfare. This week we present you a new opponent designed around these mechanics: the Lost Soul. These creatures are the unresting souls of the long dead that haunt certain places, often a fateful part of their own tragic demise, and can occasionally be bound as servants by more powerful necromancers.

But what does make the Lost Soul different?

Incorporeal

Lost Souls are unique in that they exist in part in the physical world and in part in the world of ghosts. They constantly shift between the two, yet can find peace in neither. With their visuals we tried to capture their lore of being torn between two worlds; they constantly change in contour, one moment just a hazy mist, the other a grotesque face manifests.



Being incorporeal, Lost Souls are very hard to actually hit and damage. Many times weapons will pass right through them as they shift out of the physical world. However, since they can also never have a strong physical presence, a single attack that does strike true will end them.

Due to their pervious nature they travel easily on all kinds of environment and never receive a movement penalty from difficult terrain. Like other undead, they are also immune to all morale effects and are not bound to the limitations of stamina and fatigue.

Horrific Scream

Lost Souls can raise their unearthly voice to screech a horrifying scream, challenging the courage of all mortals. This is a mental attack against a single target who instantly has to pass a morale check, a dice roll against bravery. Upon failing the test, the target will flee in panic for at least one turn, unable to perform any action.

Neither shield nor armor are of any help against this kind of attack. Instead, having a high bravery is the best defense, as is being near allies who can defend a helplessly fleeing Battle Brother. We also have a few perks and items planned which will shine against an enemy as this. With Horrific Scream, we want Lost Souls to bring a different aspect to tactical battles - an opponent who directly attacks your Battle Brothers’ morale, and which feels distinct from physically-oriented opponents. In bigger battles, Horrific Screams can shatter your shieldwall from afar and allow other undead troops to take advantage of the confusion in your ranks.

Ghastly Touch

As Lost Souls reach out with their ghostly hands, they permeate any armor and can outright mortify the tissue they touch. This attack does not do a lot of damage on a single strike but it ignores armor altogether, reinforcing again that a very much physical concept such as armor is meaningless against an opponent for whom physical obstacles mean nothing. Armor is useless when fighting Lost Souls, and the battle is very much a mental one.



The Ghoul

Ghouls are despicable creatures that scavenge graveyards and burial sites for fresh graves where they dig out the recently deceased and feast on their corpses. This is why any band of undead is often accompanied by ghouls just like a fishing boat attracts hungry seagulls - even though ghouls are not technically undead, but living and breathing creatures that also feel pain and are susceptible to morale effects.

In combat a ghoul is neither very strong nor dangerous alone, as he has no armor, has only his claws to attack with and rather low morale. A lone ghoul isn’t even that keen on attacking your Battle Brothers. Unfortunately, ghouls almost always appear in bigger flocks. Even more unfortunate, ghouls possess the ability to feast on fresh bodies in the midst of battle, thereby quickly regenerating their health, and worse.

Let’s take a look at the ghoul’s active skills.

Claw Attack

Ghouls have long and sharp claws at their hands that they use to dig through the earth in search of food. These claws can tear grievous wounds and are often infected with all kinds of diseases. The claw attack is a quick attack that does a reasonable amount of damage but is not very well suited to cut through armor.

Gruesome Feast

The ghoul tears apart a fresh body on the battlefield and devours it, quickly healing his wounds and growing in size and strength. Devouring a body takes up a whole turn, but a ghoul is never satiated and will canibalize even the dead of his own kind. For every body a ghoul feasts on, he will continue to grow in size, strength and aggressiveness. Leaving ghouls to freely consume all the dead can quickly spiral out of control, leading them to grow to enormous sizes. Instead of fighting the cowardly scavengers they usually are, you could end up fighting hulking behemoths that look to swallow your Battle Brothers whole.

Ghouls should add another level of consideration to any battle they are a part of. Leaving your dead to charge after those retreating skeleton bowmen can mean scavenging ghouls having a feast. And you having a big problem. Small ghouls can easily be chased off, but can you afford this in the midst of battle?
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Crazy Horse

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Re: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix
« Reply #113 on: August 01, 2014, 03:09:08 pm »

Your artist is doing wonders for the undead.

Maybe you've mentioned this before since I haven't read all dev posts but I'm wondering if you have a general theme for the enemy factions planned yet. I mean will you go the high-fantasy tolkienesque route or perhaps something rooted in medieval factions or even medieval mythology/folklore? I understand if you can't reveal unfinished factions yet.

I can't help but be reminded of the classic 1992 game Darklands by what I've read of this game. Free-roaming game where your party of armed vagabonds roams an openworld medieval Germany hunting down brigands and the occasional raubritter(robber baron) who sets up a fort near a town. It also had unique fantasy elements from local folklore.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2014, 03:27:36 pm by Crazy Horse »
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PsenBattle

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Re: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix
« Reply #114 on: August 05, 2014, 05:20:33 am »

Thanks for the compliment, Crazy Horse.
I'm Paul the Battle Brothers art guy.
To be honest I completely missed Darklands back in the day. I tried to watch some let's plays now and catch up on it, but it's pretty tough stuff to look at today haha. Allthough the concept and setting is pretty nice and offers a lot to the player.
Concerning additional factions there are already a few we revealed on one or the other occasion. That includes:
"Bandits" - Basically human opponents of all sorts
"Orcs and Goblins" -  The Classic
"Beasts" - Werwolves and other mythological creatures roaming the world
Once we've finished the core game mechanics we'll shift to adding content. There's a giant backlog of stuff we want to implement and we will see what we manage to squeeze in :)

Cheers!
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Neonivek

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Re: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix
« Reply #115 on: August 05, 2014, 05:27:56 am »

With the ghosts there the game is now officially not just a zombie apocalypse which surprised me quite a bit. (Yes I know vampires were there before, but they easily could be explained away as special zombie)

which does make it interesting.

I do wonder why Ghouls don't enter the field as behemoths though but my three guesses is 1) Gaming convention, 2) Their transformation doesn't last (but lasts out of battle long enough), or 3) Because they would become out of control even for the undead where they would just end up eating the undead and the living.
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Elfeater

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Re: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix
« Reply #116 on: August 05, 2014, 09:41:44 pm »

This is really starting to look amazing, I cant wait for you to flesh out the other factions.
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Jaysen

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Re: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix
« Reply #117 on: August 06, 2014, 10:15:05 am »

@Neonivek:
We planned for a big enemy variety al along, its just by an odd occasion that the undead came first. Mainly its because they act rather "stupid" and most of them do not require a super sophisticated AI. Know we know that we can create a more complex AI and so the other factions can be worked on. Although we regard some as "content" and so they will have to wait until all the major game mechanics are in place.

Regarding the ghouls: They grow weaker if they havent eaten in a while, that explains why they start out weak in combat and just get a quck buff upon feasting on a corps. So your number 2) is correct ; )

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Elfeater

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Re: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix
« Reply #118 on: August 06, 2014, 10:54:13 am »

A question on morale, will there be under the new tactical options, abilities to rally your men, or will it be mostly passive stats?
For example, could you tailor one character to be a leader, and upon his death, not only hurting the morale of your troops from his death, but also removing any bonus (auras?) that he would apply from his presence? Or, if he had an inspire ability and was built up as a leader, his death could cause the exact opposite effect to be triggered, making picking such a skill a mixed bag, good if he survives, but potentially devastating upon his fall.

EDIT: Or, maybe their death would have the effect of angering the men, and driving them to avenge a fallen leader, or perhaps a change for either one to fire making the battle less predictable on his death.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 11:02:57 am by Elfeater »
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Rap

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Re: Battle Brothers - a turn based strategy RPG mix
« Reply #119 on: August 06, 2014, 11:38:37 am »

We'll have a few accessory items that offer morale-related skills. For example, a battle horn that, when blast, triggers a positive morale check for all allies in the vicinity. It's not guaranteed that blasting the horn will rally your fleeing men, but there's a chance it does, as well as a chance to lift the morale of all the others.

Also we currently have a few perks that support the idea of tailoring leader characters. One, called "Captain", adds a percentage of the character's bravery to all allies in the vicinity - an aura, if you will. Another, "Inspiring Presence", improves the efficiency of nearby allied troops directly. Since both scale with bravery, having a specialized leader or support character that sacrifices combat skills for high bravery to some extent could be a valid option. Unlike with character traits, we want perks to give a clear benefit and no trade-off (other than not being able to pick another perk), so we won't add an inbuilt downside to choosing these perks. However, both perks require some investment into the Utility perk tree first and therefore a veteran character. A character like this isn't easily replaced, and losing him could have serious consequences if your plans depend too much on having a leader character (e.g. because other Battle Brothers have little bravery themselves but depend entirely on being pushed by a leader).
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