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Author Topic: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"  (Read 13412 times)

Owlbread

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Re: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2014, 11:26:36 pm »

As a parting message I must remind everyone that we do not have lakes in Scotland. Lakes are English.
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Xantalos

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Re: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2014, 11:28:30 pm »

They sweeped those lakes thoroughly, no sign of the monster was ever found. The only accounts are typically suspicious for one reason or another.

As is true for pretty much everything else paranormal.

There's a prize for showing pretty much any kind of supernatural abilities in a laboratory setting, it's completely unclaimed despite existing since 1964 and having increased to One Million Dollars in size.

There are in fact a great many similar prizes, absolutely all of them are unclaimed. Nobody has ever certifiably demonstrated anything supernatural.
Yeah, those'll never be claimed. Supernatural stuff and the scientific method are like cats and lava.
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Itnetlolor

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Re: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2014, 11:34:50 pm »

I remember back within the first years I moved down to Florida, seeing a UFO in the sky. I was awake, it was broad daylight (closer to maybe 2PM if I remember the lighting correctly) Nothing was up close, and it wasn't a blimp (if it was one, then I don't recall seeing anything like that in that shape). Additionally, I still remember clearly that it was not your traditional triangle, flying saucer, or anything of that nature. It resembled something closer to a combination of Bespin Cloud City and the UFO in Close Encounters (of the 3rd Kind), slightly oblong in shape, as if it had aerodynamics in mind (shutting off inertial dampeners and opening up the windows and such? Did it have exterior decks?), and it was definitely not small (maybe about the size of a battleship cruise ship, considering it's speed, and distance), and it even had lights that were flickering, not like usual "UFO" lights or household lights, or even the kind of lights aircraft have, but rather back-lit more like building lights, and how you can see them flicker when people walk past a lit window (they were not flashing in any particular pattern, but I knew there were people walking through them).

Now the unusual thing, nobody else, at all, was aware of it, despite the fact that I was scared shitless (not literally, thank goodness) by what I saw, and was looking for anyone to confirm what I was seeing while in a panic. By the time I did get someone to see from where I was seeing, it was gone. As far as I can tell, some aliens were going on a cruise, and wanted to make a quick stop past Florida. That could explain some of our more unusual residents. How those aliens passed customs is a mystery.

EDIT:
If anything, I guess the ship looked much closer to the one in District 9 (rather jellyfishy), but the size of a cruise ship, and more streamlined as if it was made for low altitudes as well.

EDIT EDIT:
Considering my proximity to NASA (shuttle and rocket launches, got a front-row seat... sorta; good seats, and a longer subscription, I guess), not to mention all the aircraft activity that goes on (plenty of military choppers, and in one case a low-flying (as in, as low as condos are tall) 747 hauling a space shuttle on it's back buzzing past our beach), what the hell was NASA on to at that time, come and think of it? Anything major occur between '89 and '92? That was when it happened, last I recall.

« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 01:21:09 am by Itnetlolor »
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Frumple

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Re: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2014, 11:39:03 pm »

As is true for pretty much everything else paranormal.

There's a prize for showing pretty much any kind of supernatural abilities in a laboratory setting, it's completely unclaimed despite existing since 1964 and having increased to One Million Dollars in size.

There are in fact a great many similar prizes, absolutely all of them are unclaimed. Nobody has ever certifiably demonstrated anything supernatural.
'Course, that doesn't necessarily mean no one ever will, exactly. Fifty or so years isn't much in the grand scheme of things.

Personally, I'm largely skeptical, but I've also directly observed at least one occurrence that, insofar as I can tell, was physically impossible*, so I'm not quite going to say that what's normally termed paranormal's an impossibility. Definitely not yet (sufficiently, in regards to scientific rigor) observed and not something with sufficient empirical justification to assert the existence thereof, but... well, the whole empiricism thing also says my own experience counts as a data point and... *shrug* Hasn't been something that's repeated, but one-off doesn't mean non-existent, just statistically mostly-irrelevant. Which until it can be consistently weaponized, I would consider the paranormal :P

*Movement without cause, and definitely not sufficient cause based on what other phenomena was observable at the time. Nothing fancy: I had a card that was laying on top of a TV spin -- very quickly, both in terms of rotation and movement -- to the ground at a straight 45 degree angle, in a room with no/little moving air, no vibrations (I was sitting at the time, no passing cars, etc.), no much of anything.

If you're looking for neat symbolism, it was an old MtG Command of Unsummoning card, and it landed face up, facing me. Pretty sure I've still got the card laying around, somewhere. Incidentally, I was much younger, and left the house for a while at that point. 99% sure it was coincidence, sure, but staying or not being equal, at some point you take the pascal's wager and dip, just in case. Probably wasn't a message, but just in case...
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2014, 12:13:48 am »

There is no paranormal, only that which we do not yet understand. But most of what you're thinking of is just total bullshit or false perception. Do you know I've heard my name whispered in a menacing voice at night while trying to sleep? Very shocking, I stayed up the whole night after that. Of course, it was also at 4:30 AM when I heard it, I'd been having trouble sleeping anyway, and the house I was in is old so it settles a lot. Oh, and I would later find out that my mother's boyfriend was walking around getting ready to go to work at the same time.

Now, given that nothing else happened after that, what is more likely: That I, in my exhausted insomniac state, misinterpreted a sound (or even legitimately heard a sound that is similar to my name), or that intelligent ghosts exist despite the total absence of all measurable evidence and we are being haunted by them for some reason unbeknownst to us?

Y'all motherfuckers need empiricism, is what I'm saying. Accept that you don't know very much in the big picture and that your senses and memory are both imperfect liars, and you will be able to make a far better assessment of the world.
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Criptfeind

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Re: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2014, 12:35:57 am »

I don't believe in anything supernatural or paranormal or whatever you wanta call it. Ghost aliens magic gods whatever, it's all really just more likely not existent then existent. But I'm still scared of the dark, like, automatically. So there is that.

Supernatural stuff and the scientific method are like cats and lava.

Except of course, lava and cats both exist. Which is where that analogy starts to break down.
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alway

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Re: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2014, 12:49:16 am »

And that's not even getting into the really freaky stuff that can happen when you fall asleep. Take a little something called "Sleep Paralysis" for example. Happens to about 70% of people in their lifetime, recurring for something like 30%. Essentially, you partially wake up and become aware of your surroundings, but are entirely unable to move; the normal paralyzing effects of sleep that prevent sleep walking and acting out dreams is still in effect. Usually, people panic and become very afraid, not knowing what is going on. Being partially asleep, they then begin powerfully hallucinating with visual, audio, and even tactile sensations. Due to usually being in a panicked state when it begins, the hallucinations are often quite terrifying, as they are simply a manifestation of your panicked fear; they often appear as some variety of dark figure who approaches the bed, inducing further panic. Since breathing is still not under conscious control, it remains normal; that combined with these events usually occurring while the person is sleeping on their back, it feels to them as if this hallucination is pressing down on their chest, making it hard to breathe. People who have these typically describe them as some of the most terrifying events in their lives... Though they can also manifest as erotic hallucinations.

All these things put together are thought to be the cause of most sex with aliens/alien abduction/succubus/demonic visitation/shadowpeople/tons of other rather distinct variations on supernatural tales. And is the origin of the term "nightmare." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis
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Chaoswizkid

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Re: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2014, 12:53:37 am »

I personally witnessed 2 different Unidentified Flying Objects. The first I think was an aircraft using optical camouflage that might have had a system malfunction or something didn't work right because my family and I saw at least part of it years ago in the daylight. It looked kinda of like a small cloud spontaneously generated in an otherwise perfectly clear sky, shimmered and changed shape slightly and then disappeared again. We were lucky to be flying a kite that day to see it. Pretty damn sure it's ours, and it makes a bit of sense we'd see it where we are because our house is almost directly under a popular military aircraft route (lots of helicopters every time they change base) and it's rural.
The second I can only assume was some sort of satellite that had some method of powerful thrust that was reflecting the sun, because it looked like a star in the night sky that froze its motion while the rest of the sky moved as the hours passed. When the sun's light started to obscure the stars and illuminate some of the clouds that had formed and already blocked out a part of the night sky, the satellite moved rapidly and was either under the clouds (unlikely) or bright enough to be seen past them for a short duration before we couldn't see it anymore. Watching the night sky and staying up until dawn has been a very enjoyable pasttime for my friends and I since my house affords a great view of the sky and the light pollution is very low.
In either case, though, I'm pretty sure it's just property of the US of A. Are there aliens? Probability seems to say so. Have they visited us? It's within the realm of possibility, but what I've seen personally doesn't really say so.

As for ghosts/spirits/etc., it nice to think those things exist, and if you throw out all the sensationalist crap out there some of the evidence is compelling, at least from the standpoint of "We don't really know what's going on", but again that's also assuming it's not just clever fakes even if people go out of their way to debunk it.
The only personal example of the paranormal in that case involved a flashlight consistently going out when walking into the same spot and turning back on again after leaving that area and physical markings, which were probably caused by shitty cheap flashlights with poor electrical contacts being jostled while walking and the body's reaction to panic/stress and not remembering you scratched an itch earlier. The flashlight thing hasn't been repeated since because people are pretty creeped out by old graveyards in the middle of the night. Weirdly coincidental, but nothing truly compelling.
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Criptfeind

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Re: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2014, 12:56:24 am »

I'm not sure if it was sleep paralysis, but when I was younger I would wake up unable to move on my bed and hear things like people breaking into my house and whispering in my ears. But I've always known it was some biological sleep bullshit.
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Vattic

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Re: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2014, 05:05:19 am »

Not a great fan of the whole paranormal or pseudo-science thing. Ready to change my position if enough good evidence comes to light.

And that's not even getting into the really freaky stuff that can happen when you fall asleep. Take a little something called "Sleep Paralysis" for example. Happens to about 70% of people in their lifetime, recurring for something like 30%. Essentially, you partially wake up and become aware of your surroundings, but are entirely unable to move; the normal paralyzing effects of sleep that prevent sleep walking and acting out dreams is still in effect. Usually, people panic and become very afraid, not knowing what is going on. Being partially asleep, they then begin powerfully hallucinating with visual, audio, and even tactile sensations. Due to usually being in a panicked state when it begins, the hallucinations are often quite terrifying, as they are simply a manifestation of your panicked fear; they often appear as some variety of dark figure who approaches the bed, inducing further panic. Since breathing is still not under conscious control, it remains normal; that combined with these events usually occurring while the person is sleeping on their back, it feels to them as if this hallucination is pressing down on their chest, making it hard to breathe. People who have these typically describe them as some of the most terrifying events in their lives... Though they can also manifest as erotic hallucinations.

All these things put together are thought to be the cause of most sex with aliens/alien abduction/succubus/demonic visitation/shadowpeople/tons of other rather distinct variations on supernatural tales. And is the origin of the term "nightmare." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_paralysis
I get this at least a few times a year; I suspect it happens because I get a disrupted sleep schedule from working nights. The most recent happened not long ago. I woke to hear thudding sounds and became convinced someone had broken into the room and was just out of sight. This is pretty tame compared to other instances with two specifically:

Woke facing the wall. Panicked because I was paralysed with only small very slow movements possible. Managed to turn my head only to see a large black shape looming over me which seemed to fill the room. Turned away quickly (surprising) and couldn't move more until it passed.

Woke paralysed with my back to the room. A loud screeching noise was overwhelming despite my earplugs. Unusually I realised what was going on and calmed down. Next I could tell someone was close to me and felt hot breath on the side of my head and ear. Somehow I knew this was my dad and he warned (not a threat) "If you don't turn around your mother is going to die". He said nothing else, but I could still feel his breath less and less until the paralysis passed.

One of my co-workers told me he was being haunted and had got a medium in to figure out if the ghost was friendly before calling in an exorcist. His description of the haunting was in my opinion a description of sleep paralysis. It's easily the most terrified I've ever been and I can see why people ascribe it to ghosts and similar.
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AlleeCat

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Re: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2014, 05:19:32 am »

My sister watches all sorts of ghost shows, like Taps and Ghosthunters and whatnot, and ends up getting really into them. IMO, most phenomena attributed to ghosts can usually be easily explained, and if there are other life supporting planets in our galaxy, it's pretty likely that we're the most advanced. It'd be pretty cool if an advanced civilization made contact with us, but I doubt it's very likely to happen.

alexandertnt

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Re: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2014, 06:30:27 am »

I remember driving at night and seeing an object flash infront of my eyes. It was composed of 3 seperate curved sections connected together in the middle, it was very quick and moved in such a way that was not influenced by gravity or air resistance.

It was quite Spooky and it seemed genuinely like something paranormal.

Then I drove past another sign and realised it was the head lights reflecting on the sign.

The human mind is a pattern matching machine, if you see some phenomina in the sky you don't undestand your mind will try and find the best fit it can think of. It is also is very good at filling in blanks, so if you see a blur of something, your mind gets to work trying to construct the rest of the image from your knowledge. People generally don't notice any of this happening.

I think ghosts and spirits and stuff get a free ride, as people really like the idea that when they die they live on somehow, and these things support that idea.
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Max White

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Re: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2014, 06:38:49 am »

moved in such a way that was not influenced by gravity or air resistance.
Ok look, how can you possible know that?
Even if an object isn't falling, that doesn't mean it isn't influenced by gravity, just that there is a force of g being applied on the object upwards, but this is just a technicality... More to the point how can you ever know if an object is unaffected by air resistance unless you know that no other force (like thrusters or an engine or magnets) are acting on that object therefor it maintains its velocity?

alexandertnt

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Re: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2014, 06:50:14 am »

I diddnt know that, I perceived that, which is my point. What you quoted was not the result of some investigation or reasoning, it was an initial perception with a healthy dose of an overactive imagination.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2014, 07:05:56 am by alexandertnt »
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This is when I imagine the hilarity which may happen if certain things are glichy. Such as targeting your own body parts to eat.

You eat your own head
YOU HAVE BEEN STRUCK DOWN!

Il Palazzo

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Re: An intelligent conversation on the "paranormal"
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2014, 07:09:36 am »

'Paranormal' is so elevated. Why not just call it baloney?
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