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Duke Knight's Momentum is up for revision? Which version of the skill would you prefer?

Current one, unchanged.
+4 AS and +5 DMG when moving 4 spaces or more.
+2 AS and +3 DMG on Player Phase, with additional +2 AS and +2 DMG when moving 4 spaces or more.
+1 AS and +1.5 DMG for each space moved up to 4 spaces.
Current one but AS bonus is converted to DR from the end of the Player Phase until the next one.
I don't know but I want to see the results.

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Author Topic: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! 10 Years of FEF!  (Read 274641 times)

Haspen

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Looking For Beginner Players!
« Reply #4320 on: November 07, 2018, 05:44:19 pm »

FEF7 now has its own OOC Thread to keep discussion/lore updates away from potential clogging of hub thread ;v
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Solymr

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« Last Edit: November 12, 2018, 09:58:35 am by Solymr »
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Blade Master Model 42

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Handbook v2.0 has arrived!
« Reply #4322 on: November 13, 2018, 11:38:15 am »

The Alpha version of the Laguz Handbook is here! Untested! Untried! No involvement at all in the democratic process! This is version 0.5!

Things I want to add before a hypothetical version 1.0:

  • Dragon Laguz- Not sure exactly what we want to do with them yet but it can be addressed after we see if the mechanics we have for them now work at all.
  • Preset Laguz- At least a decent list of basic building blocks for Laguz, like what I have for enemies in the upcoming GM handbook.
  • More- Maybe more Laguz focused character skills? Or Transformation effects? More weapons for humans to use against them, certainly

Hopefully it all turns out well and it can get the community seal of approval.

Sirus

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Handbook v2.0 has arrived!
« Reply #4323 on: November 22, 2018, 12:37:33 am »

I'm going to be on vacation until the 25th. I can't guarantee my ability to post in any games but I will try to do so if I'm needed, or if RP is going on.
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Solymr

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Handbook v2.0 has arrived!
« Reply #4324 on: November 29, 2018, 02:47:29 pm »

I updated the OP with the 2.1 handbook that includes a few fixes and will be updated with new images.
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USEC_OFFICER

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Handbook v2.0 has arrived!
« Reply #4326 on: December 16, 2018, 10:08:49 pm »

I think that the guide would be a little more helpful if the various classes/monsters/whatever were in alphabetical order or something similar. Maybe divided into first and promoted classes. Other than that it looks pretty good to me. Of course I'm not a GM but it certainly makes me wish that I was one.
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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Handbook v2.0 has arrived!
« Reply #4327 on: December 16, 2018, 10:12:09 pm »

I might rearrange it for a re-release, but I kept base classes and their promotions together so that you didn't have to jump around if you were referencing both, at least in most cases.

USEC_OFFICER

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Handbook v2.0 has arrived!
« Reply #4328 on: December 16, 2018, 10:13:16 pm »

Maybe that's something to mark out better then. I didn't quite realize that when reading the entries.
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Blade Master Model 42

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Handbook v2.0 has arrived!
« Reply #4329 on: February 06, 2019, 07:23:30 pm »

The issue of supports and how overwhelmingly good they are has seized my attention again. Here's a proposal to address that.

Alright so my main issue with the current support system is that it's just too good. For the sake of simplicity, lets use the stock example of the book-

At Rank C both Gain: +0 DMG, +0 DR, +2 Hit, +2 Evasion, +5 Crit, +5 Dodge
At Rank B both Gain: +1 DMG, +1 DR, +5 Hit, +5 Evasion, +10 Crit, +10 Dodge
At Rank A both Gain: +1 DMG, +1 DR, +7 Hit, +7 Evasion, + 15 Crit, +15 Dodge

This seems like an awful lot of bonuses to get in combat by virtue of being within 3 spaces of a specific person.

Now, we do not want Support bonuses to be bad. The idea behind them is to create a further incentive for character interaction between (primarily) the players. But the nature of the benefits of the support system as we currently have it in play, I argue, does a poor job of this.
Because only your highest ranking support in range matters, sometimes players will focus entirely on one other partner to the point where opportunities with other characters are lost. Pairing tunnel vision, if you will. If we allow each support bonus to stack, greater inter-party exchange will be incentivized, leading to more shenanigans.

Obviously the current calculation method of bonuses simply won't work for this. However, the main reason for that is that each unit contributes their own affinity bonus to the support. If you simply remove that, there is a significant change to the end result.

Assume Unit A has an anima affinity and is in the endgame and has 3 support Partners- One fire, one dark, and one wind, at A, B, and C support level respectfully. Let us further assume that each support is in range. Here are the benefits that we see using current methods-
DMG: +4.5, HIT: +7.5 CRIT: +30
And here's what it looks like using listed values, but without using Unit A's affinity and benefitting from all partners.
DMG: +2.5, HIT: +10, Eva: +7.5 CRIT: +30

Obviously this is still very good, but it is in the realm of usability. Also, it results in a slightly wider spread of benefits rather than a laser focus, something the balance of this game is highly susceptible to.

This is why I also propose a general reduction to the actual benefits of affinities themselves. The primary method for this reduction will be to bring each affinity selection down from three benefits, to two. Some affinities already have only two benefits, but have stronger values for those they possess. This shall be reduced also.


My proposed list:
Fire: Hit: +2.5, Crit: +5
Wind: Eva: +2.5, Crit: +5
Anima: DMG: +0.5, Crit: +5
Light: DR: +0.5, Eva: +2.5
Dark: DMG: +0.5, DR: +0.5
Thunder: DR: +0.5, Crit: +5
Ice: DR: +0.5, HIT: +2.5
Water: DAM: +0.5, Hit: +2.5
Heaven: Hit: +2.5, Eva: +2.5
Earth: DAM: +0.5, Eva: +2.5

So what probably immediately jumps out at you is the fact that DG is missing as a benefit entirely. I chose to remove it from my proposal for a very simple reason: Nobody wants to have it. We have a character skill that obviates it, and the usefulness of it is debatable, even when in excess compared to critical bonuses. It just made more sense to get rid of it entirely.

In any case, lets revisit that thought experiment from before- a unit benefitting from 3 supports at a time- Fire: A, Dark: B, and Wind: C
DMG: 1, DR: 1, Hit: 7.5, Eva: 2.5, Crit: 20

This gives us a fairly wide spread, and somewhat more reasonable values. I've also included a couple other configurations.
Thunder, Water, Anima
DAM: 1.5, DR: 1.5, Hit: 5, Crit: 20
Heaven, Light, Wind
DR: 1, Hit: 7.5, Eva: 15, Crit: 5
Earth, Wind, Fire
DAM: 1.5, Hit: 2.5 Eva: 12.5, Crit: 15
Anima, Dark, Fire
DMG: 2.5, DR: 1, Hit: 2.5, Crit: 20
Earth, Earth, Fire
DAM: 2.5, Hit: 2.5, Eva: 12.5, Crit: 5
Anima, Anima, Anima
DMG: 3, Crit: 30

So these values are clearly lower, though not much more, than values we had in place for A rank under the previous system, but they are predicated on having 3 specific units within 3 spaces of the beneficiary instead of just one.

GiglameshDespair

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Handbook v2.0 has arrived!
« Reply #4330 on: February 07, 2019, 05:05:49 am »

I'd say reduce crit to +2.5 as well since crit is king
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Twinwolf

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Handbook v2.0 has arrived!
« Reply #4331 on: February 07, 2019, 07:07:29 am »

I think one change already being floated was something like all supports giving 2.5 crit and dg, so that none of them are the absolutely nuts level of crit two 5-crit supports could be and so dodge supports aren't dead draws?
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Blade Master Model 42

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Handbook v2.0 has arrived!
« Reply #4332 on: February 07, 2019, 08:24:04 am »

Honestly reducing crit as well is probably a good call, since supports, for whatever reason, historically have had a backwards relationship with crit values where they're way higher than other values proportionally. I just wasn't sure about doing that as part of this first draft proposal.

xelada

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Handbook v2.0 has arrived!
« Reply #4333 on: February 08, 2019, 03:37:59 pm »

One thing to keep in mind: mathematically crit can have twice the effect as hit; +1 hit gives you  a 1% chance to do +100% damage (the difference between a miss and a hit), while +1 crit is a 1% chance to do +200% damage (the difference between a normal hit and a critical hit).
However that is assuming you are combining the hit and crit roll, if you separate them then then crit becomes less valuable, to be precise, the 1% is multiplied by your hit rate so if you have a 60% hit rate +1 crit gives you 0.6% to do +200% damage.

Assuming we are balancing around separate rolls then I'd say between +1.5 and +2 crit per support level is a good number (if we are balancing around a combined roll then 1.25 is probably best).
+1.5 crit and +2.5 hit give an equal amount of value around 80% hit chance (83.3% to be more precise).
+1.75 becomes equal around 70% hit chance (71.4% to be more precise)
+2 become equal around 60% hit chance (62.5% to be exact)
The number you want to use depends on what the "average" player hit rate is expected to be.

Dodge unsurprisingly works the same, but something to keep in mind the fact that the breakpoints key to enemy hit rates, so +1.5 crit and +2 dodge might be equally valuable due to the fact enemies tend to have lower hit rates.

GiglameshDespair

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Re: The Fire Emblem on Forums Hub! Handbook v2.0 has arrived!
« Reply #4334 on: February 08, 2019, 04:05:50 pm »

One thing to keep in mind: mathematically crit can have twice the effect as hit; +1 hit gives you  a 1% chance to do +100% damage (the difference between a miss and a hit), while +1 crit is a 1% chance to do +200% damage (the difference between a normal hit and a critical hit).
However that is assuming you are combining the hit and crit roll, if you separate them then then crit becomes less valuable, to be precise, the 1% is multiplied by your hit rate so if you have a 60% hit rate +1 crit gives you 0.6% to do +200% damage.

Everyone I know of rolls separately for hit and crit.
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