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Author Topic: BoundWorlds: Legendary Dungeons (A Zelda-inspired dungeon creating package)  (Read 95072 times)

Retropunch

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Re: BoundWorlds: The Patchwork Universe Project: Seeking World Builders
« Reply #90 on: May 12, 2014, 04:05:18 pm »

While they're all noble goals and I completely understand and commend the reasoning behind making it into a sort of online RPGMaker, I think expecting players to get the inspiration and motivation to build adventures themselves out of thin air might be difficult.

I know this would be a huge departure, but how about framing it all within a lot more lore/story/atmosphere? This goes back to what I was saying about a more coherent theme, but more than that I can imagine it could be framed within some sort of 'dream worlds' or dimension travelling story. This would do a lot to give people a reason behind/for making worlds, give the world builder a bit more direction and tie things together better. I just feel it needs more story that you put in, rather than expecting the players to build up their own stories.

If nothing else, I'd suggest making a ton of maps/stories yourself and making sure that the starting world is absolutely fantastic in terms of tileset, layout and so on. Currently it's a bit bland and it doesn't really entice people as much.

Again, I'm sorry to criticize so much - I think it's got a lot of potential and I really like what you're trying to do, I just feel it needs more direction from you rather than just hoping people will create it all themselves.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: BoundWorlds: The Patchwork Universe Project: Seeking World Builders
« Reply #91 on: May 13, 2014, 02:31:47 am »

The overall lore is basically that there is a Void filled with creative potential from which new worlds are constantly being born, created by the echoes of dreams that become known as gods in the worlds born from their thoughts.  Sometimes these creative beings take physical form and descend into the worlds that they create and bind them to the echoes of the worlds created by others.  The true purpose of this is to create a web of realities that holds back an entity of pure chaos that is constantly straining to escape from the void and consume all things.  The footsteps of the Creators among the web of bound worlds is what binds the chaos in its prison.

The Chaos will consume the junk worlds that are neither visited regularly nor maintained by their creator.

Might be a little overly melodramatic but I think it works.

IndigoFenix

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Re: BoundWorlds: The Patchwork Universe Project: Seeking World Builders
« Reply #92 on: May 13, 2014, 03:51:30 pm »

No new features with this update, but I did make some major changes to the data storage system, which should hopefully speed up loading and prevent the periodic database failure problem.

Retropunch

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Re: BoundWorlds: The Patchwork Universe Project: Seeking World Builders
« Reply #93 on: May 13, 2014, 04:45:26 pm »

The overall lore is...

That sounds interesting, and certainly workable into a really interesting atmosphere, but you really need to work on building it into the game!

How about having a few big worlds to explore with a few stories/quests related to that (even simple fetch quests), and then portals to 'chaotic worlds' (which are the player built ones) which you gradually unlock?
You could unlock the first set of chaotic worlds (the best, small worlds - chosen by you) early on, and then unlock bigger chaotic worlds later on. You could have the possibility to build small rooms first, which could then gradually expand to larger ones.

I think it's all about having some progression/story/game to carry it. Although creating your own stories is nice, it needs something to keep people coming back to it and to motivate them to contribute. For those that just want to build there could be a separate 'builders account' which gives you unlimited funds and stuff.
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With enough work and polish, it could have been a forgettable flash game on Kongregate.

IndigoFenix

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Re: BoundWorlds: The Patchwork Universe Project: Seeking World Builders
« Reply #94 on: May 14, 2014, 02:08:28 pm »

Some new functionality has been added.  Most importantly, you can now preload images using a function to speed up later load times.  That is, instead of having to wait for a room to load everything when you enter it, you can now make a tile that, by stepping on it, you start loading an image resource early so that the loading is quicker when you reach the actual room.  You can make a 'gateway' room that uses the default tileset, which loads quicker, before making a gate to your actual world.

You can also make invisible tilesets now.  That way you can use a visible but non-solid tileset to make your room look good, and then use an invisible tileset with solid tiles to handle the collisions.

I've started putting together a more elaborate world, with a real plotline and better graphics, as Retropunch suggested.  It is called Protea, you can access it from the Universal Gate to see how it is developing.

IndigoFenix

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Re: BoundWorlds: The Patchwork Universe Project: Seeking World Builders
« Reply #95 on: May 16, 2014, 07:35:18 am »

Another update!

You can now add sounds, both through advanced functions and through the basic function editor.
The basic function editor now lets you transform one sprite into another (actually works by adding a new sprite in the same position while deleting the old one).

To accommodate for all the new moving objects and sounds, you can now pause by pressing P.  This will also stop all sounds.

The World Builder now lets you edit your world directly through a text file (using XML format), if you prefer doing things like that instead of using the in-game editor.  It may make some kinds of editing easier, and may also allow you to do some things the regular editor does not allow, however be warned that some changes you can make this way may not be compatible with future updates.

Also some loading-related bugs have been fixed.

IndigoFenix

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Re: BoundWorlds: The Patchwork Universe Project: Seeking World Builders
« Reply #96 on: May 16, 2014, 10:33:47 am »

Just fixed up a bug that was causing occasional crashes when loading the World Builder.

Also, not sure if everyone realized, but you can hover the mouse over the items in the function builder to find out what they do.

emeralis00

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Re: BoundWorlds: The Patchwork Universe Project: Seeking World Builders
« Reply #97 on: May 17, 2014, 09:31:11 pm »

Aside from not having time to toss at things, I wanted to look for a nicer looking tileset. The default one is pretty bland and uninteresting.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: BoundWorlds: The Patchwork Universe Project: Seeking World Builders
« Reply #98 on: May 18, 2014, 12:34:10 am »

Aside from not having time to toss at things, I wanted to look for a nicer looking tileset. The default one is pretty bland and uninteresting.

I found a couple of good ones, but since I didn't make them, I can't use them as the 'official' tileset for the game.  I'd suggest OpenGameArt.org, it has a lot of free resources, but you have to copy them to another site rather than link directly to them.

IndigoFenix

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Re: BoundWorlds: The Patchwork Universe Project: Seeking a Tile Artist
« Reply #99 on: May 18, 2014, 04:30:47 pm »

As an experiment, I have made a publicly editable dungeon area (called 'Public Dungeon') with some fairly complicated sprite classes in it, such as switches that must be held down by pushable balls to open passages, puzzle reset switches, interchangeable antimatter keys, and various traps and monsters.  Let's see if people can collectively make something interesting before trolls destroy it?  And thanks to the XML editing method, all these objects can be copy-pasted into your own world.

emeralis00

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Re: BoundWorlds: The Patchwork Universe Project: Seeking a Tile Artist
« Reply #100 on: May 18, 2014, 11:01:44 pm »

So I made a small world called Peaceful garden, with a single room, Garden Gate.  It should be accessible via public gate though there isn't much to see yet.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: BoundWorlds: The Patchwork Universe Project: Seeking a Tile Artist
« Reply #101 on: May 19, 2014, 12:09:44 am »

Some notes about how the world reward system will work, as it is looking now:

You can build worlds for free, but over time, the Chaos will try and delete worlds.  Coins 'invested' into that world by the player act as a 'shield' to protect them from deletion, and will be gradually drained away.  The builder can voluntarily invest coins in a world.  When a world runs out of coins, it will start to siphon coins from its creator in order to sustain itself.  Only when its creator runs out of (non-invested) coins will the world be deleted.

A world builder earns coins when people view your world, based on two factors: how much time they spend in it (checked through the database itself) and how many times they take a step.  The number of coins is based primarily on time.  However, this value is capped at 10 times the amount of time they spent walking.  If a player spends more than 10 times as much time standing still as they spend walking, the builder will not get any extra points beyond this.  (This number may be adjusted).  Coins earned by a world go directly toward that world's upkeep.

Time and actions spent building a world also count toward that world's upkeep, which should give worlds that its builder worked hard on a significant boost over those that were tossed together in a few minutes.

A player earns coins either by withdrawing them from one of their worlds' investment, or by picking them up in other people's worlds.  However, when a player earns coins from someone else's world, the amount of coins they earn is taken out of how many coins they would have given to that world upon exiting.  This ensures that their earnings are capped based on the amount of time they spend in a world (to prevent a world builder from simply leaving out a chest that gives players a million coins) and also discourages 'treasure worlds' that have little independent merit but are visited because they are filled with coins.  Such 'treasure worlds' can exist, but they will tend to be deleted quickly.

A world builder will earn a bonus if the player exits a world back to the same world and room they originally entered from.  This is to encourage semi-cohesive geography.  There will also be a bonus if a player uses their world to travel to a world they haven't visited yet in the session.  This is to encourage linking to new worlds.

Most importantly: A world builder will not receive any points if the player is forced to leave using the escape key.  This is to discourage dead-end rooms with no escape.  Players will not receive any coins either if they leave using the escape key; this is to discourage players from bouncing out unless they actually have to.

So: in short - to earn many coins, build worlds that players will like to travel to and spend time walking around in, include links to new, obscure worlds, include links that link back to the same area they are initially entered from when possible, add coins to reward players but not too many, and avoid dead ends.

Exactly how volatile the system is has yet to be determined.  I want there to be some means of automatically deleting troll or junk worlds, but I don't want anyone to have to be frantically worried that the project they worked so hard on will be deleted against their will.  (If you're afraid of it, remember that you CAN save the XML data of a world to your computer and re-upload it later - although the initial investment will be lower because you didn't spend as much time on it in the in-game world builder.)

Armok

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Re: BoundWorlds: The Patchwork Universe Project: Seeking a Tile Artist
« Reply #102 on: May 19, 2014, 05:33:56 pm »

Thats a really good system. I'm impressed! On the deletion issue... what about you always save the data, but it's no longer active/accessible to other players and they have to spend coins to put it back?
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Retropunch

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Re: BoundWorlds: The Patchwork Universe Project: Seeking a Tile Artist
« Reply #103 on: May 19, 2014, 06:16:34 pm »

I'm really glad you're adding more game elements!
This sounds like a really good system, although I can imagine players could get annoyed with everything being permanently lost and feeling like they need to keep playing just so their world doesn't get deleted. How about once the world reaches a certain level it becomes guaranteed safe? Possibly the worlds could get 'corrupted' instead of deleted, you could delete some random blocks/change some and just make it a mess. This could be undone with a certain number of coins perhaps.

A few thoughts I've had:
-A player 'home base' map, which they could decorate as they wish and would start at each time they logged in. This couldn't be visited by other players, but could serve as a sort of playground for them to design at will and give them somewhere to just relax.
-Another type of more valuable resource, perhaps one that's only gifted in a few rare occasions or could be bought for a highish number of coins. This could be used to do special things and would be something that people would really strive to get. Perhaps it could allow them to keep worlds completely safe, or perhaps it could be just used to buy certain types of stuff for the home base.
-Some sort of threat. Currently there isn't anything that can really damage the player, and it'd be good if there was some sort of threat. It'd be good to see some interesting mechanics for this, instead of just a few random monsters put down.

Here's an idea I had:
The chaos causes monstrous shadows to appear, these appear as you gain more coins (to stop beginners having to deal with them). These could start off randomly pacing around like sort of random ghosts, but could then get more purposeful in following you/attacking you as you gained more and more coins. Walking into them would cause damage (or a loss of coins or however you want to deal with it). These could then be negated/set back with help of the valuable resource. This would also happen on any world other than 'safe worlds' which could be designated with the valuable resource or some other way.

This would add a level of complexity as you'd need to balance coins with the valuable resource, and would also make 'safe worlds' and 'non-safe worlds' a thing - which I'd quite like to see!

Lastly, I would perhaps suggest changing coins to something else - coins are very mario, and I don't really see them fitting in with the chaos theme.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: BoundWorlds: The Patchwork Universe Project: Seeking a Tile Artist
« Reply #104 on: May 20, 2014, 12:00:21 am »

I'm really glad you're adding more game elements!
This sounds like a really good system, although I can imagine players could get annoyed with everything being permanently lost and feeling like they need to keep playing just so their world doesn't get deleted.

While it could be an issue if deletion happens to frequently or fast, a world will only be deleted if (A) its creator stops playing/earning coins AND (B) people stop visiting the world.  Coins earned by a world go directly toward that world's upkeep - if a player makes a decent creation and someone else links to it and players start using it as a passageway, it will remain as long as players keep using it.  Even without an official 'safe' option, once this happens enough the chances of a world being deleted are virtually nil.

Possibly the worlds could get 'corrupted' instead of deleted, you could delete some random blocks/change some and just make it a mess. This could be undone with a certain number of coins perhaps.

Don't like it.  The complexity of the world building system means that changing things randomly would do more than just make the world a mess, it could lead to the world becoming completely non-functional or even cause crashes.  Besides, the point of the deletion system (besides being something to do with coins) is to free up database memory that is being used by junk worlds - messing them up even more without deleting them would be counterproductive.

A player 'home base' map, which they could decorate as they wish and would start at each time they logged in. This couldn't be visited by other players, but could serve as a sort of playground for them to design at will and give them somewhere to just relax.

Not a bad idea.  You can already make private worlds by just not giving them a public entrance, and travel to them/test them through 'My Gates', but allowing the player to 'escape' directly to a designated location (one that, perhaps, has links to their own favorite worlds) is certainly an option.

Another type of more valuable resource, perhaps one that's only gifted in a few rare occasions or could be bought for a highish number of coins. This could be used to do special things and would be something that people would really strive to get. Perhaps it could allow them to keep worlds completely safe, or perhaps it could be just used to buy certain types of stuff for the home base.

Hmm... well, players will be able to make their own permanent items, that can be used for whatever they want within the confines of that world.  Some sort of 'shop' system could work though.  Or perhaps, just as coins a player gains are reduced from the total amount they would give to the world on exiting, coins a player spends could add extra to that world's upkeep.  There would have to be some means of ensuring that world builders wouldn't simply place hidden tiles that steal coins from whoever walked over them, though...
It's hard to think of special in-game items that could be 'purchased', since everything that appears in the game, players will be able to make themselves!  The only real resource is the time and effort it takes to build them.

Some sort of threat. Currently there isn't anything that can really damage the player, and it'd be good if there was some sort of threat. It'd be good to see some interesting mechanics for this, instead of just a few random monsters put down.

You can actually make enemies, although you need to use the 'advanced' mode.  In the enemy sprite's 'collision' function (which runs whenever the sprite steps onto another sprite's tile), make a conditional block that checks if the other sprite in the collision is the player (if @ == *), and if so, make the player jump to wherever you want on the board - back to start, back to the beginning of the room, or make them jump with 'collides' active and have them land on a sprite that will transport them to another room.  You can even set a global variable to use as hit points and run a check that will do something different if they all run out.  It's very open-ended, although I can imagine that enemies are something players might want to have in the basic function editor.

The chaos causes monstrous shadows to appear, these appear as you gain more coins (to stop beginners having to deal with them). These could start off randomly pacing around like sort of random ghosts, but could then get more purposeful in following you/attacking you as you gained more and more coins. Walking into them would cause damage (or a loss of coins or however you want to deal with it). These could then be negated/set back with help of the valuable resource. This would also happen on any world other than 'safe worlds' which could be designated with the valuable resource or some other way.

Don't like it - see above for the reasons against having the program mess around with other people's worlds.  The 'plot' is more of a framing element to describe why the coin/deletion system operates the way it does, but it should remain strictly meta.  If world builders want to use it as a part of their world's story, that is up to them.

Lastly, I would perhaps suggest changing coins to something else - coins are very mario, and I don't really see them fitting in with the chaos theme.

Yeeeah... I was kind of excusing myself because coins are also a generic symbol (in Tarot, anyway) for the stability of the physical world, buuut... mostly because I just couldn't think of anything better.  Of course, world builders can make them look like whatever they want.
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