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Poll

Over already?

It was a good run! Fun, too.
- 3 (42.9%)
I learned things.
- 1 (14.3%)
I WON!!!
- 3 (42.9%)

Total Members Voted: 7


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Author Topic: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Victory and death! FINISHED!  (Read 27792 times)

lijacote

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Looking for a player!
« Reply #75 on: April 07, 2014, 11:36:22 am »

Well, that's up for us to decide. Typically, in the framework of the rules that have been presented, NAPs aren't binding, and they have no set definition (which is a part of the problem with them, they often lead to bad blood when there's no agreement). I've seen them used in the sense that you agree to a NAP, and the players agree on a turn limit on breaking the NAP. For example, you could agree to a NAP-3, and agree that that means that you agree not to attack each other, and if any party wants to break that pact, they have to wait for three turns after breaking it before attacking.

In Machiavellian diplomacy, you can give someone gems/items in order to secure their loyalty/friendship, but that doesn't bind them in any way to be your friend or ally. That's different from "hey want to trade 20 gems for a dwarven hammer?" I think this is because there's no function mechanically to trade items, it's just giving and hoping for the best. Personally, I do think that NAPs and other non-material trades should be breakable and not-binding. That's a major part of the tension and the draw of the game (for me).

Regarding public diplomacy, and what you wrote, HopFlash: would you say no to private dealings in addition to the council business? I'm totally into writing Darkwind into a sort of neutral cherubic character to comment (in verse) on the game, by the way.
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Me miserable! which way shall I fly
Infinite wrath, and infinite despair?
Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell;
And, in the lowest deep, a lower deep
Still threatening to devour me opens wide,
To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heaven.

HopFlash

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Looking for a player!
« Reply #76 on: April 07, 2014, 11:51:52 am »

Regarding public diplomacy, and what you wrote, HopFlash: would you say no to private dealings in addition to the council business? I'm totally into writing Darkwind into a sort of neutral cherubic character to comment (in verse) on the game, by the way.
hmm...then the council would only be a RP platform...I think the most deals would be still in private.
I'm not sure about it...all are relative new and exciting options for me ;)

Long time ago I played Space Empires 4 with several RL friends and there were several extraordinary public relation people (not professional) on work in our game forum. There were RL espionage and intrigue going on but beside these public forum diplomacy (primary propaganda and provocations ;) ) there were private messaging/talking all time.
So much is possible but I think you can't force a game to be like this ;)

I think if we want some more storytelling the no private is better. If we want ambushes and intrigues then we should go with private messages.

Curious what the others want to play :)
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GENERATION 11: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

Inactive Therian Saga Char: Stormhead
Dominions: 4.03 Berytos; 4.06 Pangaea; 4.08 Arcoscephale; 4.11 Shinuyama
Inactive Wurm Online Char: Stormhead

GP Trixie

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Looking for a player!
« Reply #77 on: April 07, 2014, 12:15:58 pm »

Hey, I would be interested to be the 6th player of this game. I already posted in the round 4 disscusion, but 2 games should be manageable anyway. I never did a MP game before so I don't have really any opinion on the rules.
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lijacote

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Looking for a player!
« Reply #78 on: April 07, 2014, 12:17:48 pm »

Welcome! I'm sure it won't become too hard to play two games, especially since they're different in size. I'd expect this one to end a lot faster than the disciple game.
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Me miserable! which way shall I fly
Infinite wrath, and infinite despair?
Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell;
And, in the lowest deep, a lower deep
Still threatening to devour me opens wide,
To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heaven.

HopFlash

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Looking for a player!
« Reply #79 on: April 07, 2014, 12:36:44 pm »

Welcome! I'm sure it won't become too hard to play two games, especially since they're different in size. I'd expect this one to end a lot faster than the disciple game.
perhaps not if we have public diplomacy going on...where we all life in peace until our pretenders die of old age ;)
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GENERATION 11: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

Inactive Therian Saga Char: Stormhead
Dominions: 4.03 Berytos; 4.06 Pangaea; 4.08 Arcoscephale; 4.11 Shinuyama
Inactive Wurm Online Char: Stormhead

tompliss

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Building gods and people and rules
« Reply #80 on: April 07, 2014, 01:22:48 pm »

if so...how long is there cool down time? if I want to break it how long do I have to wait until I can attack you again?
The best way is to give you an example.
In the 4.02 round, I was on an island and proposed a trade with the nation on the other side of the "ocean" (2 provinces in the shortest route) : He would provide me the air items that let me bring 50 units in the sea, in exchange for a big pack of gold and a non-agression pact for a full year. The NAP part was because if I did this move alone (or with the help of another nation), it could have easily been interpreted as the promises of an invasion.

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HopFlash

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Building gods and people and rules
« Reply #81 on: April 07, 2014, 02:02:25 pm »

ok...no global NAP (or other treaty) cool down timer...all details to the diplomancy parties then
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GENERATION 11: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

Inactive Therian Saga Char: Stormhead
Dominions: 4.03 Berytos; 4.06 Pangaea; 4.08 Arcoscephale; 4.11 Shinuyama
Inactive Wurm Online Char: Stormhead

Shadowlord

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Building gods and people and rules
« Reply #82 on: April 07, 2014, 05:50:29 pm »

Is this patch that we are apparently waiting for coming out Real Soon Now, or Real Soon Now in Valve Time, or does anyone even have any idea? (Is there a reason we're waiting for it?)
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lijacote

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Building gods and people and rules
« Reply #83 on: April 07, 2014, 05:51:59 pm »

It's supposed to be coming this week. That's what one of the two developers said. We're waiting because it will have one or two new nations, and some nations will have new pretenders. It's also somewhat of a pain to patch a game midway through, when there's a chance for mismatched .2h files and other shenanigans.
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Me miserable! which way shall I fly
Infinite wrath, and infinite despair?
Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell;
And, in the lowest deep, a lower deep
Still threatening to devour me opens wide,
To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heaven.

Shadowlord

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Building gods and people and rules
« Reply #84 on: April 07, 2014, 05:54:54 pm »

Ah. That makes sense.
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lijacote

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Building gods and people and rules
« Reply #85 on: April 07, 2014, 05:59:43 pm »

Scratch that. Actually, the new nations are scheduled to happen later. My bad.

Quote from: Kristoffer.Osterman
I think I will finish the Caelum stuff during the easter break.
It might turn into a flier mod with caelum fixes + one or two new flier nations.
I have the concepts clear, so it is mainly the spritemaking and the descriptions that need s to be done on the new nations.

From last week, we've got another post from the same Kristoffer:

Quote
Version 4.05 is just receiving some final
testing then it will be released. If nothing unforeseen happens it
should be available in a week or so.

The new version will have the changes from the progress page (there are quite a lot of them) minus the caelum related stuff. The Caelum update is not finished yet and I thought it was better to put that in the next update than to wait any longer. The biggest new feature is the story event mode that enables random events that requires more interaction than usual and/or has really powerful effects. It's still a beta feature, so don't enable it in serious multiplayer games.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 06:01:33 pm by lijacote »
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Me miserable! which way shall I fly
Infinite wrath, and infinite despair?
Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell;
And, in the lowest deep, a lower deep
Still threatening to devour me opens wide,
To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heaven.

lijacote

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Building gods and people and rules
« Reply #86 on: April 09, 2014, 02:39:54 am »

Spoiler: Patch notes (click to show/hide)
The celestial carp pretender is oriental, so peoples like T'ien Ch'i and Jomon can play him. The raksharani is a death/nature/blood raksha pretender available to bad monkeys like Lanka, while the maharishi (thanks tompliss, I totally forgot about him) is available to all monkeys. Very interesting, all of them, I think. Not sure which one is scarier of the first two.

So with the patch here, we can start the game without issue. I'll draft the final game settings and approve them with you, and then you can begin sending your pretenders. I'd like for the game start either today (on the ninth) or tomorrow, at the latest on Friday, so I hope you're not too confused about what you're picking! If there's any help you need, I'm sure there's a lot of advice available here, so don't be afraid to post! If it's top secret, I'm available for private consultation. I am shit, though, so there's that.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 02:53:58 am by lijacote »
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Me miserable! which way shall I fly
Infinite wrath, and infinite despair?
Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell;
And, in the lowest deep, a lower deep
Still threatening to devour me opens wide,
To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heaven.

tompliss

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Building gods and people and rules
« Reply #87 on: April 09, 2014, 02:44:19 am »

Both Maharishi and Raksharani are for monkeys ?

so Trixie can choose his nation, I'll say that I'll go for Oceania or Pangea, with greater chances of Oceania. Will need some final pretender testing this evening for the final decision :D
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lijacote

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Building gods and people and rules
« Reply #88 on: April 09, 2014, 03:07:19 am »

Era: Early
Map: Biddyn
Players: Six
Hall of Fame Entries: 15 (up from 10)
Special Site frequency: 50 (up from 45)
Score graphs: Off
Renaming: On
(Story events aren't available on Llamaserver right now, I think, but I think we might be better off going without them for the moment)

Mods: Worthy Heroes

Victory by thrones
Seven thrones available, four points required for a victory. All level one thrones, and custom placed.

Diplomacy:

Both public and private diplomacy are available. For intrigue, plotting and backstabbing, we recommend the private option. For awesome roleplaying, visible alignment and letting the audience enjoy your game, we recommend public diplomacy. The more interesting/entertaining stuff on the thread, the better. The admin will give you points for roleplaying.

You may invent whatever context for the roleplaying as you wish, but the game starts from the council chambers.

Only purely material trades (gold for gems, gems for gems, items for gems etc) are binding, while alliances, NAPs (using whatever definition), and others are not.

Additional notes regarding your play:

If you want to go AI, ask for permission first. We'll try to find you a substitute player before letting the AI wreak havoc on the game. If you're not going to get your turn done in time, send me a PM or post on the thread, and I'll try to sort out an extension for you.

Once this has been passed, I'll edit the first post to reflect our state.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 03:43:09 am by lijacote »
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Me miserable! which way shall I fly
Infinite wrath, and infinite despair?
Which way I fly is Hell; myself am Hell;
And, in the lowest deep, a lower deep
Still threatening to devour me opens wide,
To which the Hell I suffer seems a Heaven.

tompliss

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Re: Dominions 4 Round 4.03: Building gods and people and rules
« Reply #89 on: April 09, 2014, 03:27:59 am »

Is the "Score graphs: Off" option only for the Llamaserver part, or is it also for the in-game graphs ?

As for the other options, I think they are OK. 3 thrones for victory may be a little bit low, but still OK.
(I mean, I could go for Pangea with a dragon pretender, pump minotaurs and stealthy centaurs, go grab 2 thrones with the Dragon and minotaurs and catch a third one with the centaurs and a prophet. And I'm sure other nations could do that too :p )

I would go for 4 out  of 6, or even 4 out of 7 (an extra throne so we can have a nation with a lead even in the beginning :D ).

EDIT : you can use this link ( http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=137585.msg5166425#msg5166425 ) in the first message for the pool ;)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 03:29:41 am by tompliss »
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