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Should humans get several civs, based on RL civs? (Asian/Western/Arabic/etc) Only one would be active by default, but players can chose to enable more or play as different ones.

Yes, please give us Vikings and Ninjas and Knights.
Yes, but only if it doesnt take too much work.
Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to vanilla DF humans as possible.
Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to MDF humans as possible.
No, I dont like it because it doesnt fit a procedually generated fantasy world.
No, I dont like it, because... (please post the reasons)

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Author Topic: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode  (Read 59636 times)

Meph

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☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode
« on: April 07, 2014, 06:58:35 pm »


Please post all discussion, questions, suggestions and bug reports for Humans in this thread. Thank you.

The human race will be the next race to be developed. For now, this thread serves only to collect ideas by the community.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 02:11:24 pm by Meph »
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moseythepirate

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2014, 07:08:29 pm »

It seems pretty promising. I like a lot of what I see here.

Just an idea about the Caste system...might it be possible to limit how one advances through the castes? For example, a peasant needs to become a squire before it can become a knight. Also on the subject of the squire, I think it would make sense for the squire to not be that great in combat, but it gives nearby knights a buff.
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Vabalokis

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #2 on: April 07, 2014, 07:14:47 pm »

IMO df humans should be really slow miners but really fast wall builders thus making blocks would be a thing. 
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Meph

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2014, 07:24:18 pm »

I thought about peasent to squire for free, after three years as a squire he gets a 50% (25-33%?) for a promotion to knight, from that point on once a year, till he gets the promotion. So maybe after 3, or if unlucky it might take 4-5-6 years till knighthood.

Squire buffing knight makes perfect sense.

Good masons were mentioned, maybe a 8-block-per-boulder ratio could be a thing. Or something akin to the dwarven Brick Oven.

Slower mining learning can be done, and leads to more aboveground forts. Good idea.
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dshannon

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2014, 08:08:27 pm »

Perhaps have some form of tar kiln which can use coal/wood/oil/peat to produce tar/pitch

This can then be used as a possible reagent in a form of ship-making, wood polishing or better yet, as a form of castle defence, maybe one which produces a physical liquid that acts like lava but burns out after time?
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moseythepirate

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2014, 08:12:40 pm »

Another thought...perhaps humans can't smelt their own steel or make their own steel stuff, but can buy it (at a premium, either lots of money or some special, hard to obtain currency) from the Dwarven Smith, perhaps with qualities levels at different prices, or linked to merchant skill. It makes sense...legendary weapons and tools made by magical races with talents human don't possess have long been a part of RL human legends.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2014, 11:11:22 pm by moseythepirate »
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Denisac

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2014, 08:16:31 pm »

Here's a random collection of ideas.

Make heavy cave adaptation a bad... BAD thing for humans (very miserable + sick).  That would force more more open layouts for towns and force more above ground construction.

A dichotomy of light versus dark where having too many dark areas in living quarters and work areas can lead to random crime and even dementia over time (dark alley syndrome).

Dark cults and other random !FUN! which can pop up on its own if the people are not being properly shepherded by the righteous and pious clergy (who themselves could be at risk of the same corruption as everyone else).

If new specialized farms are being developed, cook in a slight chance of blights or other destructive events to occasionally harm outputs.

Make wealth a more coveted resource.  Do not allow coinage to be directly created, but generated from various buildings/reactions and spent as a reaction resource.

Inns to attract random mercenaries from the 'Dwarven Legion' faction.  Do not allow these characters to be hired/controlled, but have a slight chance of criminal behavior.  They're basically fodder to 'buy' materials from the various marketplaces.

Marketplaces in general where visitors can congregate and generate coinage.  Allow marketplace reactions to turn materials (food/booze/fish/etc) into a generic 'goods' resource.

Gambling dens, better at generating money, but tend to cause criminal behavior.

Allow accrued wealth to be spent to hire 'mercenaries' as part of migration waves.  Basically make them war trained pets that have to be assigned to a civ member 'leader'.  Upgradable to better equipment via reaction at a mercenary camp of sorts.

Allow wealth to be spent at the various faction shops to buy gear (dwarven steel, elven arrows, kobold poisons, etc).
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blapnk

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2014, 10:21:20 pm »

Going for the multicultural angle, is it possible to get other races as fully controllable civ members you can assign labours to? Have one or two dwarves around for dwarfish labours and forget they need booze unlike the rest of your humans.

Maybe something to do with adventurers, might just because human towns are the only ones developed in adventure mode right now but humans seem pretty adventurous to me. Dwarves set out on expeditions, Orcs raid the seas and rivers, Warlocks send out minions to ravage the countryside, what if humans went out by themselves on quests of personal glory? It could give them combat experience as well. Your warriors need something to do if you're buying out all the invaders and creating a terrible time of peace and prosperity.

If they can't make steel I suppose mithril and bloodsteel are out too? Steeloak wood? Netherbark leather probably needs a drow connection like the orcs do. Honestly I can't remember the last time I made steel the normal way with flux and pig iron in masterwork.
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IndigoFenix

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2014, 01:18:32 am »

Nice.

I had an idea a while back for a religion system that lets you build a generic altar, then consecrate it in the name of a particular god worshipped by at least one of the members of your community.  By praying or sacrificing at the altar you can then improve your relationship with that god and get bonuses based on the particular god's spheres (or possibly penalties for neglecting them).  I don't have good ideas for some of the spheres though.  Obviously would require heavy dfhack use but it's certainly possible...

As for gnomes, you can make copies of the automatic machines if you really want to, but that probably wouldn't be thematically appropriate.  The 'crate of technological wonders' is intended for trade though, it contains a random assortment of gnomish armor and weapons which should be appropriately sized if you open it with a reaction.

kingu

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2014, 02:58:56 am »

I dont know if it is technically possible to mod but CAVALRY!
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Meph

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2014, 03:34:54 am »

These suggestions require dfhack:
-  Cavalary
- IndigoFenix Pantheon/Religion
- Criminal behavior (maybe possible to fake with interactions)
- Multicultural fort (Currently I can spawn for example a Goblin civ member in a human fort, but all je does is hang around the meeting area and eat/drink. No labors)
- Denisacs Inns/Marketplaces (idlers/visitor mingling places)
- Tar liquid (I think thats impossible)

Good ideas:
- Tar-based defenses, like tarpots in weapon traps that start fires, or as catapult ammo.
- Heavy cave adaption. Perfect. Leads to open courtyards, windows and aboveground forts. (Maybe some form of lamp/torch/candle) that can be used to make humans temporarily immune, otherwise it would be impossible to fight/mine into caverns.)
- Before anyone asks: No, Rendermax light can not be hooked into that.
- Race-specific merchants. Base the merchant stalls on trade-permits you have to buy from the caravan. That makes sense and simulates the permanent merchant arriving with the caravan. These could sell all kinds of race-specific goods, making it more interesting than just "item merchant x".
- Mercenary "pets": Dont know about that one. Maybe human civ members with gear and combat skills you can buy? Pets invite all kinds of funky behaviour like pet-names, belonging to an owner, being butcherable, edible as foodsource, and wont carry gear and wont be treated in the hospital. Very curious if dfhack allows more options.
- Dark cults/Dark alley syndrome: Very advanced stuff, I will put it on the late late list together with magic and similar things. Its possible with interactions, but very timeconsuming to write and hard to balance.
- Casino: Never found a good way to write those wiyh raws, but warmist was working on some fancy idle-script, that allows idle workers to do jobs themselves... like playing games.
- (Major idea: Make use of this script to make idle humans a good thing. The more idlers you have, the more they use gambling, shops and the merchant stalls to generate income for you.)
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Vabalokis

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2014, 04:30:09 am »

Quote
Major idea: Make use of this script to make idle humans a good thing. The more idlers you have, the more they use gambling, shops and the merchant stalls to generate income for you.

that would be awesome
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Meph

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2014, 04:45:47 am »

It would be new and reward large populations, which fits well with the theme of large busy towns. Requires dfhack r5 though, which is far away. But so is this human-cadtle idea ;)
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Kiefatar

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2014, 09:06:39 am »

They should definitely be able to make steel from the onset, but more advanced ores should probably only come from high end trading with Dwarves/Gnomes/Orcs.

Have there be multiple Tiers of trading buildings for each race? Denoting increasing levels of trade/cooperation?

Libraries/Barrack reactions for training soldiers would be nice, and maybe a 'Quarry' building that allows them to generate stone blocks/boulders, potentially slowly, but so that mining is done exclusively for metals (or not at all and they acquire it via trade only). Combine with severe cave adaptation and it sounds good. I'd like the concept of them having an outside quarry that they then go and bring the stones back to the fortress, to make true above ground castles.

Maybe some advanced Wall/Floor reactions to improve creation speed?
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LMeire

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2014, 11:00:49 am »

How about a thieves' guild and an assassins' guild with associated castes?

Thieves would sneak up on idle workers and "pickpocket" them generating cash and possibly making the victim unhappy, if possible, pickpocketing should be seen as a crime by the guards but unnoticeable to ordinary citizens. Maybe a series of "front-shops" for the thieves' guild to increase the rate that thieves attempt a pickpocketing in addition to usual craft-production.

Assassins would be a military caste with naturally high dodge and ambush skills. The assassins' guild could be used to put a bounty on any unit on the map in exchange for an expensive fee, causing all assassins on the map to attack the targeted unit on sight. Assassinating a civ-member would still be seen as a murder if witnessed, but if possible should not start a loyalty cascade. Assassins might automatically target a worker that shares a grudge against someone, generating cash instead of costing it like a bounty.
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