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Should humans get several civs, based on RL civs? (Asian/Western/Arabic/etc) Only one would be active by default, but players can chose to enable more or play as different ones.

Yes, please give us Vikings and Ninjas and Knights.
Yes, but only if it doesnt take too much work.
Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to vanilla DF humans as possible.
Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to MDF humans as possible.
No, I dont like it because it doesnt fit a procedually generated fantasy world.
No, I dont like it, because... (please post the reasons)

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Author Topic: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode  (Read 57439 times)

Meph

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2014, 11:45:53 am »

Vanilla DF humans do not have steel, thats why I dont want them to have it. (without some dwarven smith/merchant)

Multi-tier traders is possible. I just have to avoid spamming too many new workshops.

Library maybe. I think it would be best to simply copy the dwarven library. I cant see how humans would set it up differently, and it causes less confusion for the player, since he/she already knows how it works.

Advanced wall/floor reaction? They are no reactions, but constructions. Giving higher mason and carpentry skill will accomplish that.

Quarry: I think an actual quarry that you dig would be much better.  Strip mining a giant hole drops enough stones for construction and makes the tiles light/outside. This way you can mine in sunshine, level foe level. I think thats much nicer than a quarry-workshop.

lmeires assassins/thieves: I wouldnt even know where to begin to write something like this. AI modding cant be done.
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bennerman

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2014, 02:14:07 pm »

Maybe give them a whet-stone building to make sharpened iron, which is somewhat comparable to normal steel?

And perhaps "true" suits of armour, which are composed of both plate mail and chain mail for improved iron armour?
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Meph

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2014, 02:18:15 pm »

Whetstone to sharpen weapons: theoratically possible. it might get a bit confusing with equipping military though. (sharpened iron != iron)

Armor: Chainmail can already be worn under platemail.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
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bennerman

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2014, 02:19:32 pm »

Whetstone to sharpen weapons: theoratically possible. it might get a bit confusing with equipping military though. (sharpened iron != iron)

Armor: Chainmail can already be worn under platemail.

I wish I knew that about the chainmail :P

Not sure if you can build gold or platinum weapons with any of your races already, but they are theoretically easy metals to work with, and much heavier blunt weapons might make a good compensation for only having iron edged weapons?

Edit: Or failing the above, an alloy of silver and lead or iron and lead to make them heavier?

Edit 2: Definitely powder weapons, and how about mortars, if you can make shrapnel occur upon explosion?

Ditto on cannons as siege weapons

Edit 3 (last one): Ah, powder weapons are already on there, but the handheld mortar/handcannon is a thing :P
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 02:28:25 pm by bennerman »
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Meph

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2014, 02:29:19 pm »

Silver and gold can be used for weapons already and wolfram is the go to choice for this. Will be covered by dwarven smiths.

Siegeengine cannons: Maybe with dfhack. Warmist is the person to ask about that.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 141 countries visited :::

Dorenabel

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2014, 02:48:33 pm »

- Aboveground-only farm workshops, like dairy farm, agriculture monocultures and mills.
Is it have chance to include animal farm? Build workshops (with bureaucratic permission, written with inks and some rare ingredients on paper to keep it late game buildings) wich produce yarn, cheese, and even scales (also require blueprint available from dwarves), chitin (drow contract) for example, to reduce amount of animals from 500+ to reasonable amount and save late game fps? Well, ability to purchase all this with coins via some trade house also fine.
 I have zero experience with DF modding, so everything below just ideas, which probably possible to implement.
 Diplomacy - option to invite "enemy of my enemy" to repel invaders and leave items/corpses on ground much more appealing, but I afraid they will just camp map edge forever even if it possible.
 Witchhunters - let them have own workshop. To send them in wilderness to hunt foul sorcerers and develop own magic in fortress with occasional loot they bring back (absolutely not foul, even this +dwarf cultist skin cloak+ as pure as childs tears. Our fort specializing in child's tears, ya know?) Of course they aren't interested in gold, but will gladly hunt whatever you want with orders (paper and ink to create one) from.. yes it's some bureaucratic structure again.
 Caves, tunnels, underground - is it possible to add some kind of autospell to every human which spawn some faceless terror if he spent to much time underground (linked to cave adaptation, which even orcs have it seems)? Well, idea to make them appear in tunnels below surface, rip human apart and leave misleading message in combat log like "Peasant X suddenly noticed CreepyShadowHorror lurking in darkness" instead of "Peasant X summoned CreepyShadowHorror, which actually hostile / opposed to life". But opposed to life can be abused imho, so hostile to humans only civ should be better, but no idea is it possible or no.
 As for gameplay aspects - take away magma from humans, let them order/purchase some fuel in tradehouse and give them bureaucracy. Dwarfs can pour all they see with magma, orcs can fight all they want, kobolds all about survival and short lifespan, warlock about sorcery, humans.. humans could do all this but they don't have permission in 3 exemplars signed by Gran Councellor, verified by Scrivener so..  ::)
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Meph

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2014, 02:58:34 pm »

I am not sure if burocracy makes for a fun haming experience. :D

I cant take magma away from them, but with their cave adaption it will be hard to use. Could you please explain your creepyhorror idea further? I am not sure if I got that. Are you suggesting some form of fort-mode boogeymen that appear to heavily cave adapted humans?
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 141 countries visited :::

Dorenabel

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2014, 04:01:43 pm »

 Bureaucracy always fun unless you meet it yourself. Idea to add some background to race, humans in df isn't look like religious fanatics but rather merchants, one fit another, and since all you need to add it is to rename some ink+paper reactions which already exist it's not going to be time consuming or hard to implement (relatively). So with little effort you can get some new aspect to control late-game building spam, mass production of goods which aren't supposed to be mass produced by adding *Signed orders on greathammer* (just example, replace with any weapon which supposed to be advanced/rare like doomcannon) to reaction to make one (unless you really have tons of ink and paper). Overall it's just library system which already exist under new angle.
 Creepyhorror - name isn't important, actually idea came from fact that adaptation grow over time and have some value stored memory, so somewhat can be used (no idea if it really can, and don't remember where it came from) to track how much creature spent time underground, otherwise it's just to random. Well, yes, fort-mode boogeymen, not creature randomly running around and listed as hostile but something suddenly appearing in darkness to stalk it's prey - each human who spent to much time in darkness, light source maybe negate effect (autobuff condition/possibility or banish creature) if possible, just otherwise i don't see any reason to not move underground. If they move slow - send 20 miners there, if they melt slow build 20 smelters, and it's always faster to dig rooms rather than build them. However if every descend in underground level organized like military operation it will give me good reason to build castle, not to dig one  :) Also something new in game to have fun with. Maybe even for "Conquest of underground and horrors beneath" for some human forts :) So, pretty lame explanation because i don't know what to explain exactly.. Alot of caster already use spells wich they buff on themselves repeatedly, but it's mostly protective spells, (merchants in combat log animating dead to spawn animated weapon on arrival so probably somewhat possible to use spells to summon) so technically all human castes should have this "boogeyman spell" which they think is buff and able to cast, and will cast as soon as some condition met, some cave adaptation value in this case. So problem is - is it really possible to use adaptation value (or whatever else but no idea what else can be used) to initiate "harmful buffing" or not to summon creature around. Because if possible it's just like horror movie with terrors lurking in darkness and new aspect in game with not so friendly underground levels.. something like this. If bogeyman composed of something what dissolves on light titles it's even better but so far haven't seen anything like this in game.
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Meph

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2014, 04:09:20 pm »

Yes, thats possible.

I can make heavily cave adapted humans spawn hostile boogeymen that either time out or die when exposed to the sun. First I would have to make sure that inside != underground, otherwise they would appear inside buildings as well.

"Fake" animal farms to help FPS by keeping the amount of pets down are possible, but I cant think of a neat way to do this. Plants are easy, Seed in, Plant out. But animal farms... i cant use animals as reagents.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 141 countries visited :::

LMeire

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #24 on: April 08, 2014, 04:14:07 pm »

...

lmeires assassins/thieves: I wouldnt even know where to begin to write something like this. AI modding cant be done.

Ah well, I guess I got too excited.

To add to your agricultural buildings, how about Eel ponds for farming high-quality fish meat? IRL, eels were farmed all over Europe as a delicacy for feast-times, so I figure it's at least thematic. They could require an eel egg-sac to build and produce raw freshwater eels of a random gender for the fishery. Egg-sacs could have a low chance of being produced with every female eel caught.

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Shardey

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2014, 04:16:03 pm »

Maybe it would be possible to have 'trade caravans' between towns on the map, so that making multiple settlements and one big central castle would be beneficial. Of course those settlements would need to be protected and there could be a whole giant problem with food logistics..

Different settlements could have bonuses for their specialization, let's say a special 'town hall' building which radiates some kind of bonus to the surrounding workshops. And you can only have one town hall of each kind.
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arbarbonif

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #26 on: April 08, 2014, 04:27:13 pm »

Rather than cave adaption, humans should not be able to see in the dark.  Can you give speed/skill malus when in a place that would give cave adaption?  Then you could add a line of sight effect to light sources that remove the dark penalty, so they could still mine and such they just suck at it without light.
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bennerman

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #27 on: April 08, 2014, 04:39:14 pm »

Can you make power sources only provide temporary power? If so, how about peat-burning furnaces? That way, you can devote a group of the lower-lower-LOWER-class peasants to constantly feeding the peat/coal/wood-burning furnaces.

Edit: and in addition to the above suggestion about dark-blindness, add whale-oil/kerosene/alcohol lamps that use the same mechanic as pylons from warlock tower (treated by animals by the game, but meant to be just objects, for easy deployment) that can easily be moved throughout the tunnels. I'm reading that kerosene was distilled in persia as early as the 9th century AD

Edit 2: Bonus points if they start fires when attacked
« Last Edit: April 08, 2014, 04:44:02 pm by bennerman »
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Meph

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #28 on: April 08, 2014, 04:43:22 pm »

Eel pond: I thought I could just use the existing fish pond. But good to know, I did not know about the rl eel farming.

Not seeing in the dark: That was what I was going for before I saw the boogeymen idea. Slow movements and malus on most things, except if equipped with a candle/torch. I cant do line-of-sight ti lightsources, except from creature to creature, like I do with skeleton to pylon/warlock in warlock mode. Maybe dfhack allows something like that.

AoE buffs for specific guilds: The guildhalls could make banners/signs. Immobile creatures that give guild-specific buffs. That would lead to specialised districts, for example jewelers and glassmakers would work faster near the jewelers banner. There could only ever be one banner per guild at the same time. The only issue with that it that I would have to make guilds a caste, exactly like in dwarf mode.

Features between forts on the worldmap I cant do.

Bennerman: Are you new to df or the mod? Peat can already be used as fuel (screw press & smelter) and power is temporal. If there is no manual labor, water or wind, it will stop.
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::: ☼Meph Tileset☼☼Map Tileset☼- 32x graphic sets with TWBT :::
::: ☼MASTERWORK DF☼ - A comprehensive mod pack now on Patreon - 250.000+ downloads and counting :::
::: WorldBicyclist.com - Follow my bike tours around the world - 141 countries visited :::

bennerman

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #29 on: April 08, 2014, 04:44:59 pm »

Eel pond: I thought I could just use the existing fish pond. But good to know, I did not know about the rl eel farming.

Not seeing in the dark: That was what I was going for before I saw the boogeymen idea. Slow movements and malus on most things, except if equipped with a candle/torch. I cant do line-of-sight ti lightsources, except from creature to creature, like I do with skeleton to pylon/warlock in warlock mode. Maybe dfhack allows something like that.

AoE buffs for specific guilds: The guildhalls could make banners/signs. Immobile creatures that give guild-specific buffs. That would lead to specialised districts, for example jewelers and glassmakers would work faster near the jewelers banner. There could only ever be one banner per guild at the same time. The only issue with that it that I would have to make guilds a caste, exactly like in dwarf mode.

Features between forts on the worldmap I cant do.

Bennerman: Are you new to df or the mod? Peat can already be used as fuel (screw press & smelter) and power is temporal. If there is no manual labor, water or wind, it will stop.

I don't think I've ever had to use peat. Always had plenty of lignite and coal
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