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Poll

Should humans get several civs, based on RL civs? (Asian/Western/Arabic/etc) Only one would be active by default, but players can chose to enable more or play as different ones.

Yes, please give us Vikings and Ninjas and Knights.
Yes, but only if it doesnt take too much work.
Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to vanilla DF humans as possible.
Maybe better to only make one civ, as close to MDF humans as possible.
No, I dont like it because it doesnt fit a procedually generated fantasy world.
No, I dont like it, because... (please post the reasons)

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Author Topic: ☼Humans☼ - Everything Human Mode  (Read 146338 times)

bennerman

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2014, 07:49:37 pm »

Ok, I'm not sure if you can make this, but I think this is a very solid idea:

A magma desalinator. Saltwater and magma go in, the water is boiled in a retort or still, the steam is condensed back into desalinated water, and the salt can be used as a cooking ingredient. Thoughts?

Interesting idea...doesn't seem very humany though. Most salt production by real life humans has been either mining rock salt or old-fashioned solar pond...

OH! You meant the purpose would be desalinization...still doesn't seem very humany.

Humans have always had a talent of thriving on the sea. This is a good way to make that easier.

Edit: you have elves in the forests and dwarves in the mountains. Let the humans have the sea xP
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 07:53:01 pm by bennerman »
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lcy03406

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #46 on: April 09, 2014, 08:58:54 pm »

you have elves in the forests and dwarves in the mountains. Let the humans have the sea xP
You are not serious. Human have the plain.
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Arcvasti

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #47 on: April 09, 2014, 09:11:46 pm »

Being strongly trade-based and having mediocre metallurgy skillz are both pretty neat ideas for a unique gameplay experience. If it wasn't mentioned earlier, having a lower mining skill gain and maybe some form of sky adaptation [Negative effects after too long underground], would be nice. If above ground structures are being encouraged, maybe we should have parquet tiles or some other blocks that can only be used in constructions, but are really easy and efficient to make. Some cool agriculture stuff would be neat too. I'm thinking that their magic system should be loosely based off of the Warlock spell system[They're pretty much the same, except the Warlocks study more powerful forbidden magic], but they can only learn the first two spells of some of the schools.
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lcy03406

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #48 on: April 09, 2014, 09:39:09 pm »

"Fake" animal farms to help FPS by keeping the amount of pets down are possible, but I cant think of a neat way to do this. Plants are easy, Seed in, Plant out. But animal farms... i cant use animals as reagents.
You can make it more realistic, for example, hay in, milk out.
But I'd argue against the animal farms. The problem is not how, but why. Trading works jut fine. Who need so many domestic animals that hurts FPS?
Every caravan brings more than enough cheese, leather, yarn, fresh heart, meat.
We can also buy meat from trading workshops, in case of starving.
The reason why we have too many animals is not about the product at all. It's about the animal itself. So an animal farm can't help much.
Someone, sometimes want an army of cragtooth boars, or ironclad horses for human.
Want cats to hunt vermin.
Want drake scales. I doubt human's ability in breeding drakes. It's better to buy the scales from dwarves.
Want eggs. Egg is not better than meat in any aspect. Animal farm has not the same sense of hen and nest box. So it's not useful and not fun.
Want pets to make people happy. You can write an reaction of "look at the beautiful birds", but it's better to actually look at some statues in the meeting hall.
So the best way of keeping the amount of pets down, is not to breed them at all. We don't need an alternative way to breed them, really.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2014, 09:41:51 pm by lcy03406 »
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Meph

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #49 on: April 10, 2014, 06:23:06 am »

General feedback seems to support the idea of a playable human race. Thats good to know.

I think Dwarves, Humans and Orcs as easier to play races, and Warlocks, Gnomes and Kobolds for more experienced players is fitting.

I am not sure if I want to do a clergy/christian belief thing, because it simply does not fit DF. Dwarves have Armok of course and that Warlocks meddle with demons from hell makes sense, but there is nothing in the game that supports the idea of god, the church, heaven and angels. Even more so since the humans will be shown as worshippers of all kinds of procedually generated gods ingame.

But if someone does come up with some dfhack pantheon religion feature, I would of course add it. Putnam, Warmist and IndigoFenix come to mind, all three have at least mentioned things like that.

I think writing the humans will be much easier than the Warlocks, because the modding behind the traders and guilds is not new territory. I just have to expand the features that already exist in dwarf mode. The only difficult ghing will be balancibg the traders. Avoiding people walling in and buying everything from these merchant stalls all the time, with no outside access.
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bragos

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas - Added poll
« Reply #50 on: April 10, 2014, 06:53:08 am »

For the prevention of walling in the trade stalls, maybe you could mod in a some sort of "trade_supplies".

These trade supplies would make the operation of the trade stalls possible (like warlock pylons for instance), but would expire after a certain time. Because the expiration one would need to aquire the supplies regularly.
By making then only available as trade goods (like licences) you force the player to trade with the caravans.
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Jiamil

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas - Added poll
« Reply #51 on: April 10, 2014, 07:11:42 am »

About the traders:
Maybe make the prices extremely high, so importing goods with the normal merchants is the more cost efficient option. Or maybe place a random element to the traders, so in some cases the trade won't happen because the bartering failed or prices are even higher than normal (which might give a bad thought like "Made a bad deal recently"). Makes it a little more like a gamble.
Another thought to this could be "Tier 1" and "Tier 2" traders: the first offer only a small amount of different goods and are meant for early game, the second would have a wider range but need a Trad License in order to be built (which need to be imported).
Is it possible to make a workshop need access to the outside?
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kingu

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas - Added poll
« Reply #52 on: April 10, 2014, 07:42:19 am »

Can one connect stuff like merchant stall to the depot access function to get people to not wall in?

Also, Is masterworks humans as they look now going to change? It will be strange if humans with access to muskets and pistols in unable to use steel.
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Kiefatar

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas - Added poll
« Reply #53 on: April 10, 2014, 08:54:57 am »

Maybe, how Kobolds can steal plans for advanced tech, Humans will be able to trade for the knowledge? They buy a contract on a dwarven metallurgist and thus gain access to most of the metallurgy reactions through a unique building? Research via trade as opposed to via true research?

Also, Bandit Kings, have some sort of raiding system? Opposite end of the trading spectrum? I'd also bump up human learning rates to take into account their shorter lives.

Also... Berserkers, great big nordic types that run around with 2 handers, maybe some sort of charge or rage mechanic? A few unique military types would be nice.
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Stronghammer

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas - Added poll
« Reply #54 on: April 10, 2014, 12:33:53 pm »

The trade supplies idea is a cool one. You could have them only available from the caravans and are needed for the reaction at the stalls. So for example you buy 10 "trade goods" crates, you then can either have these unpacked in the store house for trade good supplies and then every reaction at the stalls requires coins and one of these trade good's supplies. This way it is simulated that the merchants are shipping the goods in. The only problem this method has is that you "pay" twice for one good. But this can dealt with by have the crate of goods be a low cost and then having a lower cost at the stall. But it still simulates economic activity. And yes BANKS..BANKS BANKS BANKS please banks. The idea of a human trading town with mighty merchant guilds and trade banks is really cool.
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moseythepirate

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas - Added poll
« Reply #55 on: April 10, 2014, 02:12:49 pm »

For the prevention of walling in the trade stalls, maybe you could mod in a some sort of "trade_supplies".

These trade supplies would make the operation of the trade stalls possible (like warlock pylons for instance), but would expire after a certain time. Because the expiration one would need to aquire the supplies regularly.
By making then only available as trade goods (like licences) you force the player to trade with the caravans.

Honestly, I've always found that needing to trade with caravans to unlock an entire aspect of your fort is obnoxious and restrictive. You are suddenly dependent DF's fickle trade mechanics, which is no fun at all. I do like the idea of expiring trade supplies, but making it dependent on caravans would get awful quickly. Make them available on caravans, by all means, but not reliant on them.
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Kiefatar

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas - Added poll
« Reply #56 on: April 10, 2014, 02:21:13 pm »

Indeed, a combination of Caravans and specific reactions to produce the trade item resource would be fine. Much as a few buildings use coins as a tradeable resource for various tiems, you could acquire the trade packages through a similar mechanism. Maybe use direct trades, ie barrels of food, sets of logs, stone, metal, whatever for an appropriate # of trade boxes, or just knock everything into coins before trading them back out into the trade boxes.
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Denisac

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas - Added poll
« Reply #57 on: April 10, 2014, 08:51:14 pm »

Hmm... maybe a voucher system of some sort using bars (ingots).  Make items cost a certain number of vouchers as a reaction component.  Use a bank as a means to convert items (maybe a generic trade good) to vouchers and lower rank vouchers to higher rank vouchers.  Might be a way around some of the issues with stacks of coins and would kind of insert a bit of bureaucracy along the lines of finding a permit 38 in the place that sends you mad.
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lcy03406

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas
« Reply #58 on: April 10, 2014, 10:48:15 pm »

Avoiding people walling in and buying everything from these merchant stalls all the time, with no outside access.
With no outside access and absolute safety, you can't do anything to attract them out, because all they need is grow turnips year by year. Any trade goods are not more attractive than absolute safety, and not necessary if you are absolutely safe.

Dwarves can also wall off the world (and magma-flood it) and live a self-sufficient life, grow plump helmets year by year.

If players don't want to play fun, you can't force them to play.


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bennerman

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Re: [HUMANS] - Post your ideas - Added poll
« Reply #59 on: April 10, 2014, 11:22:51 pm »

Say for the dwarven smith shop:

You can't make steel, but what if you have to supply them with coke and iron to supply them, and then pay in sovereigns to "commission" weapons out of those materials?

That way you can give them supplies for "Dwarven supplies" or buy "dwarven supplies" from a caravan?
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