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Author Topic: Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?  (Read 3382 times)

Ghoul

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Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?
« on: April 11, 2014, 11:11:27 am »

Well, I was showing my little sister the glory of my volcano fortress, when a caravan came along burdened by a caged dog. I, in my infinite wisdom told her, and she, rather typically, decided I must save the dog... Well, I unforbid the dog and his cage, and at the same time pressed, M.

Now, I had no idea that this would actually work, but the cage was then hauled off... To be smelted. And so, as the cage was hauled at last to the smelter, I was surprised to find that the dog was not released. No, the whole cage and its prisoner were tossed into the coal fired smelter, never to be seen again.

This mildly amused me, but for some reason seems to distress my little sister. I now expect to be aggrieved for the rest of the day for my dwarf's actions. If not for a week.


On a side note, does this still work for caged dragons and the like?
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Matoro

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Re: Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2014, 12:06:01 pm »

Woah, prisoners can be actually executed that way? I've never heard of it before. I guess some science must be done. If it works, it wiull be the most efficent way to kill caged things.

Also showing DF to little sisters is amusing. 
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Koremu

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Re: Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2014, 12:55:37 pm »

This could bring a whole new meaning to the term "Goblinite"
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It's a dwarf.  Their natural habitat is "trapped on the wrong side of a wall".

Flinging children halfway across the map to land in magma is good, wholesome fun, but extramarital reproduction?  Why, that's just unseemly!

Larix

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Re: Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2014, 02:19:39 pm »

This may be a peculiarity of using the melt designation to steal stuff - _captured_ animals get released when you melt the cage they were caught in, and i suspect prisoners will, too.
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Urist McRas

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Re: Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2014, 03:34:21 pm »

Wow, that's hilarious! Anyone for a hotdog?

We have to figure out a way to do that other way around: somehow make a butcher chop an animal with a cage.
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The fortresses are penal colonies.
The mountainhome has far too many degenerates too deal with by itself, so it sends out minor nobles to establish penal colonies across the world.

Rogue Yun

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Re: Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?
« Reply #5 on: April 11, 2014, 04:13:13 pm »

Aww! Poor doggy! Haha! What a great story! I am with your sister! Sometimes I feel for the dwarves and critters in dwarf fortress. But these kinds of stories are priceless. Nor am I one to scoff at weaponizing smelters. I'm sure there is a certain satisfaction one can take in dispensing with a particularly annoying creature through death by furnace :)
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MerkerBenson

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Re: Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?
« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2014, 12:36:42 pm »

actually, putting your dwarfs in a cage and melting it might be a more suitable way to get rid of annoyances in the fort pop :D
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Koremu

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Re: Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2014, 12:46:16 pm »

actually, putting your dwarfs in a cage and melting it might be a more suitable way to get rid of annoyances in the fort pop :D

Persuade annoying nobles that the gilded cage is not a metaphor?
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It's a dwarf.  Their natural habitat is "trapped on the wrong side of a wall".

Flinging children halfway across the map to land in magma is good, wholesome fun, but extramarital reproduction?  Why, that's just unseemly!

MerkerBenson

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Re: Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2014, 12:56:17 pm »

Exactly :D
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Larix

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Re: Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2014, 01:47:25 pm »

actually, putting your dwarfs in a cage and melting it might be a more suitable way to get rid of annoyances in the fort pop :D

Melting a cage containing a dwarf is a convenient method of releasing the dwarf, nothing more. Contents of a cage are released at the end of a melting job. I don't know whether the OP hit a loophole that allows "melting" a creature or just misinterpreted events, but with animals both wild and tame melting the cage does not kill the creature. The moment the job finishes, the creatures are released. Point in case: two kittens and a tame toad in a lead cage, cage was designated for melting and got turned into a lead bar. Both kittens were un-caged at the end of the job, the toad placed as item in the smelter.

Of course, i know actually checking facts before wildly speculating is tantamount to heresy.

PS: i looked at the trader-owned cages in the depot, and in vanilla you simply can't designate a cage for melting that's trader property. If the OP managed to get such a cage melted, it was likely through a third-party application like DFHack and any odd behaviour would be a DFHack bug :P
@below: yeah, atomsmashing only looks at the container, not at its contents. Melting of objects is different. I've melted occupied cages several times, and the contents were _always_ preserved and freed. This is not anecdotal "i had a wild elk bird after melting stuff in my smelters once" evidence, this is observable, repeatable behaviour.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2014, 02:09:07 pm by Larix »
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Loud Whispers

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Re: Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2014, 02:00:35 pm »

I do know for certain that there is an oddity where creatures too large to be atomsmashed can be atomsmashed if you put them in a cage.

Tawa

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Re: Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?
« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2014, 02:10:44 pm »

Yay!

Atomsmashing!

Hm... if them dragons ever show their ugly faces at my fort, they are to go into a cage, hauled to the dump, and smashed.
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Ghoul

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Re: Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2014, 06:44:06 am »

Melting a cage containing a dwarf is a convenient method of releasing the dwarf, nothing more. Contents of a cage are released at the end of a melting job. I don't know whether the OP hit a loophole that allows "melting" a creature or just misinterpreted events, but with animals both wild and tame melting the cage does not kill the creature. The moment the job finishes, the creatures are released. Point in case: two kittens and a tame toad in a lead cage, cage was designated for melting and got turned into a lead bar. Both kittens were un-caged at the end of the job, the toad placed as item in the smelter.

Ah, well it wasn't as simple as me just designating a random cage. I first (rather accidentally (honest!)) killed the dwarven merchants whilst they were leaving, and all their goods were left scattered. So I then told the cage to be melted, then unforbid it. I honestly had thought it would be ridiculous if it happened all the time.

I do believe some experimenting may be necessary for me to validate my claim...
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thegoatgod_pan

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Re: Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2014, 12:49:46 pm »

Are you sure they didn't release the dog? It is listed as dead and there is a combat report?
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Ghoul

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Re: Cruelty, or just being Dwarven?
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2014, 12:56:04 pm »

Ah, now you see there's the issue - I've deleted the fortress... Not very smart I know. I don't have the time right now to replicate it... I'll keep it down in my to do list until I have the time.
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