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Author Topic: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread  (Read 67872 times)

Reelya

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Re: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread
« Reply #375 on: October 27, 2017, 06:40:03 am »

A few years back a friend of a friend was saying how the Chinese can't invent anything, they can only imitate. Does that sound familiar? (think what people said about Japan a few decades earlier before they started inventing everything) Of course this guy was a total drughead without a job himself.

The current thing is that it's noted that China now produces many more research papers than America. but this has been written off by pundits too "well their papers aren't that good, dontchaknow. Not like good ol' white person papers! Numbers of papers isn't everything!"

The problem with that logic is about half the "papers" in America are now Gender Studies / postmodern / post-structural stuff overturning the concept of Truth etc etc. Or PhD theses on the Olsen Twins vs Miley Cyrus. Or attaching the word "feminism" as a pure buzzword to everything where it doesn't really fit as in "feminist glaciology". While China produces roughly zero% of that stuff. Yeah, numbers of papers aren't everything, just look how high the average paper quality is in the USA!
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 06:50:14 am by Reelya »
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Sheb

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Re: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread
« Reply #376 on: October 27, 2017, 07:41:45 am »

A few years back a friend of a friend was saying how the Chinese can't invent anything, they can only imitate. Does that sound familiar? (think what people said about Japan a few decades earlier before they started inventing everything) Of course this guy was a total drughead without a job himself.

The current thing is that it's noted that China now produces many more research papers than America. but this has been written off by pundits too "well their papers aren't that good, dontchaknow. Not like good ol' white person papers! Numbers of papers isn't everything!"

The problem with that logic is about half the "papers" in America are now Gender Studies / postmodern / post-structural stuff overturning the concept of Truth etc etc. Or PhD theses on the Olsen Twins vs Miley Cyrus. Or attaching the word "feminism" as a pure buzzword to everything where it doesn't really fit as in "feminist glaciology". While China produces roughly zero% of that stuff. Yeah, numbers of papers aren't everything, just look how high the average paper quality is in the USA!

You're going to have to provide a source, litterally all discussion I've seen on the subject has been focusing only on STEM research.
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Reelya

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Re: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread
« Reply #377 on: October 27, 2017, 08:16:13 am »

Well I can't quite find the articles I was reading before, but here's an article projecting that China would overtake USA in total science papers around 2013:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/mar/28/china-us-publisher-scientific-papers

This is the most recent relevant report I can find:
http://bruegel.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/PC-19-2017.pdf

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China outperforms the European Union in terms of expenditure on research and
development as a share of its GDP, and already produces about the same number of scientific
publications, and more PhDs in natural sciences and engineering, than the United States.

See table 1, It shows that in 2013 China produced 18.2% of the world's science papers compared to 18.8% for America, with America growing at 7%pa and China growing at 18.9%pa over the preceding 10 years. Safe to say, that China moved passed America around 2014, which is in line with the projections from the Guardian article. It's also notable, and in line with what I said, that China is also disproportionately over-represented in some fields: somewhat in Physics, Computing, highly in Chemistry, and excessively in Engineering (34.8% of world papers). Basically China disproportionately invests in hard, physical sciences and engineering, which is in line with what I wrote above (though I was being a little sarcastic there).

One caveat is that Chinese papers aren't cited as often as American ones, and that's held up as a sign of quality. However, they're near-parity with how often the average Japanese research paper is cited. So it's possible that some combination of racism, language barriers, and the "appeal to authority" of citing a known American researcher all contribute to making it less appealing to cite a foreigner, especially a non-white foreigner. It's also likely that there's a bias in who is reading your papers due to those same reasons, and that would skew the citations.

There are other articles claiming China lags way behind on science papers compared to the USA. I'm not sure exactly how to line those up with this report. Those are usually the articles that are also attack-pieces saying that Chinese papers are no good however.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 08:27:49 am by Reelya »
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Sheb

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Re: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread
« Reply #378 on: October 27, 2017, 08:46:30 am »

Yeah, and they look at STEM paper. I was more addressing your bizarre rant that US paper count are inflated by post-modernist look at Miley Cirys or whatever. It's also weird that you of all persons start blaming racism for America's higher citation number. The US simply has most of the best universities in the world, the best and brightest of the entire planet go there for PhD. Of course they'll have better papers, for now at least.
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Dorsidwarf

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Re: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread
« Reply #379 on: October 27, 2017, 08:47:29 am »

Are Chinese papers mostly written in Chinese or English? That might be a contribution to low citations from abroad?
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Reelya

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Re: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread
« Reply #380 on: October 27, 2017, 08:55:02 am »

Quote from: Sheb
It's also weird that you of all persons start blaming racism

What's that supposed to mean? Maybe you're mixing me up with Loud Whispers or someone who spits the dummy when racism is blamed for something. I've never done that.

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« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 09:25:59 am by Reelya »
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smjjames

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Re: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread
« Reply #381 on: October 27, 2017, 09:24:17 am »

Not to dismiss your post, but what does any of that have to do with East/SouthEast Asian politics?
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Reelya

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Re: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread
« Reply #382 on: October 27, 2017, 09:25:24 am »

I was responding because Sheb implied I was a racist.

And the only assumption I can think of that makes sense in that context would be that he's saying I'm a racist because I have criticized sjw people before. So I was pointing out that that sort of criticism doesn't in fact imply that I support the "opposite of an sjw" which would be e.g. a Klan member I guess.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2017, 09:29:16 am by Reelya »
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Sheb

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Re: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread
« Reply #383 on: October 27, 2017, 09:28:50 am »

I was responding because Sheb implied I was a racist.

Uh, certainly wasn't trying to imply that.
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Reelya

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Re: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread
« Reply #384 on: October 27, 2017, 09:31:20 am »

The phrase "you of all people" is not a good way to word things then.

e.g. "you of all people saved a dying kitten" literally means that you're surprised because they're the least-likely person on earth to help a dying animal.

ChairmanPoo

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Re: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread
« Reply #385 on: October 27, 2017, 11:47:49 am »

Not to dismiss your post, but what does any of that have to do with East/SouthEast Asian politics?
Tbh I  was as surprised as you. I thought we were at war with Eastasia. 
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A Thing

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Re: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread
« Reply #386 on: October 27, 2017, 06:50:50 pm »

Not to dismiss your post, but what does any of that have to do with East/SouthEast Asian politics?
Tbh I  was as surprised as you. I thought we were at war with Eastasia.

No, we're at war with Eurasia. We have always been at war with Eurasia.

Also, PTW
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feelotraveller

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Re: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread
« Reply #387 on: October 27, 2017, 10:47:15 pm »

Not only is there a risk of China imploding, but there's a risk of geopolitical power in general losing zero-sum status if the climate and energy crisis gets bad enough. Too much collapse and that power bleeds out into the void instead of being claimed by other nations.

And that's a good thing, right?   :P

(In terms of geopolitical power bleeding 'out into the void'.)
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MetalSlimeHunt

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Re: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread
« Reply #388 on: October 27, 2017, 10:48:32 pm »

As it indicates a destruction of civilization so severe that it stops existing...not really.
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Mech#4

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Re: RedKing's East Asian Politics Megathread
« Reply #389 on: October 27, 2017, 10:58:26 pm »

The phrase "you of all people" is not a good way to word things then.

e.g. "you of all people saved a dying kitten" literally means that you're surprised because they're the least-likely person on earth to help a dying animal.

"You of all people" can also be in the sense of someone being held to a higher standard then everyone else. Such as "You of all people should recognise the quality of this coffee" implies the person has exceptional knowledge of coffees to base their opinion off. In this manner it is a compliment.
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