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Author Topic: Might & Fealty  (Read 9334 times)

MoLAoS

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Re: Might & Fealty
« Reply #30 on: May 22, 2014, 01:45:25 pm »

It could probably be better handled by throwing up strong incentives for groups of players to start up rebellions if a big realm gets too big for its britches.  Instead of manhandling it.

Like what exactly? Do you have any examples?
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Zangi

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Re: Might & Fealty
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2014, 02:05:10 pm »

*Shrug*

Throw up 'bounties' for dukes/lords and their vassals to successfully declare independence from Rathgar/Big Country.  Bounties would be paid out in uhh... whats it called?  The subscription points.

Also temporary game mechanics supporting that, to give oomph to the rebel forces.  Of course, I guess it is harder to do subtly if you have imperialists with +10 characters all over the place keeping an eye out for rebellions in this case...


(Though overall, I guess the mechanics behind M&F really does give much more power to the bigger kingdoms, since they have much more shared resources being demanded from the vassals to funnel into a single place, which highly increases the troop training speed and the capacity/quality of troop equipment.  Or switching resources from place to place for rapid development.)
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Projectmayhem

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Re: Might & Fealty
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2014, 04:03:10 pm »

Ok, so I decided to try this out. Been playing for a day or two now but haven't been able to do much yet. I can't tell if it's good yet or not but i'm gonna give it a chance.

I made a character named Anor Darkyn in Black Forest. Anyone else nearby?
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Defacto

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Re: Might & Fealty
« Reply #33 on: May 26, 2014, 01:28:28 pm »

I might have a go at this game. It sure looks interesting (that is an understatement-this kind of game is something I have been dreaming about for a really long time)
I'm kind of all-or-nothing when it comes to roleplay, though. I can appreciate a game for what it is, and I can roleplay, but I don't like inbetweenish gamey roleplay. But meh, I'm picky now.

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Farce

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Re: Might & Fealty
« Reply #34 on: May 26, 2014, 02:09:43 pm »

Been holding off for various raisins, but I think it sounds cool, barring the problem currently in discussion.

  I remember hearing that player characters were 'superhuman' in comparison with regular folks, but does the game model regular population's various opinions and stuff?  I imagine that if populations could turn on you or something, it might help prevent big, grossly overpowering dominions.

Do they also model stuff like resource consumption?  It might help if populations got angry if they don't have enough to eat and whatnot, where they'll rebel if too many resources are diverted elsewhere - 'We grew it, why's it going to some king to grow fat on a thousand miles away' sorta stuff.

Maybe have the people by default a little leery of players, due to them being dangerous and powerful and stuff.  If they're a beneficent lord, maybe they'll grow to like the dude, but otherwise the discontent makes it barely tenable to field a few men in the political arena without constant oversight.  Maybe also make them more angry the further divided their lord's power is in a realm, and how many steps away from the king they are - if you're a minor baron under a baron under a duke under a lord under a great lord under a king, have them think it's too big to manage, and that the lord would be able to get away with declaring independence - or get mad that he's too much of a wuss to do so.  Similarly have them think it's too big and you could get away with it if you're one noble in a thousand, or something.  This way, small kingdoms would be pretty efficient, but as a realm grows larger, either in one person's command (their fief) or in player-size, it gets increasingly inefficient and unusable.  This would put a soft cap on realm sizes and incentivize splitting off.

If a population is uncontent with a current ruler, perhaps players trying to oust or rebel against him would gain bonuses in the form of revolutionary population and morale penalties to the soldiers or something, to further facilitate a changeable world?

The only problem would be not stagnating at a 'perfect' size ratio, I guess, right?  Not wanting to attack other people because you're self-sufficient, and it would be wasteful?  I'm less sure about watdo for that... maybe make populations increasingly want stuff at their borders?  Sorta a greed thing.  Maybe that sets a bad precedent, though, basing all the conflict on dem peasants (counter to the usual historical perspective, which is probably pretty important for immersion) as well as making it feel like it's just not worth bothering trying to play that bit.

Maybe newly conquered territories get newly-conquered maluses, and by recruiting from their populations and drilling your armies and getting into fights, those maluses are slowly lessened?  Meanwhile, getting into fights would generate ill-will between different territories, making the populations want to get into more fights with them, or something?  Maybe have an increasing malus on those maluses that go up with each battle, in the form of war-weariness, or something...

Zangi

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Re: Might & Fealty
« Reply #35 on: May 26, 2014, 03:55:15 pm »

Battlemaster has that...

As for M&F, not sure if it has been implemented or not.  I did play a bit of the beta and it was not present.
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Gervassen

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Re: Might & Fealty
« Reply #36 on: May 26, 2014, 07:05:51 pm »

Maybe have the people by default a little leery of players, due to them being dangerous and powerful and stuff.

There are no people in the sense you're using. The population is purely a function tied to food supply. Until one is recruited as a soldier, which do exist in the database, the people don't exist as coded objects in their own right, and cannot have discrete attributes unto themselves. They're abstracted as a number value in the province.

Tom has said that populace will never revolt or have happiness values. It isn't designed on the same philosophy of intricate mechanics as Battlemaster.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 07:10:17 pm by Gervassen »
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Farce

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Re: Might & Fealty
« Reply #37 on: May 26, 2014, 07:29:45 pm »

Mm.  Well, uh...  Shit.

Not actually personally familiar with Battlemaster, for what that's worth, but if that's not an option then I'm unsure what sort of check to put in place, then.

Mookzen

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Re: Might & Fealty
« Reply #38 on: May 28, 2014, 07:59:42 pm »

The general vibe I'm getting from the dev is that he wants the game to be about players first and game mechanics second, so he is careful about implementing stuff that takes control away from players. Well, considering the way the lore is set up the peasants probably worship nobles as demigods, so revolts and the like seem less plausible anyway and the whole system is highly abstracted, the actual needs of the population beyond food, reproduction and production capacity aren't tracked at this point.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 08:01:14 pm by Mookzen »
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Gervassen

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Re: Might & Fealty
« Reply #39 on: May 28, 2014, 08:13:30 pm »

Well, the game sucks, so maybe it can stay buried where it belongs.

The game mechanics are pretty broken for those that understand them. I could travel anywhere faster than other people, because I knew how to game the mechanics. Pretty shoddy.
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Mookzen

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Re: Might & Fealty
« Reply #40 on: May 29, 2014, 03:44:57 am »

[snip] The game mechanics are pretty broken for those that understand them. I could travel anywhere faster than other people, because I knew how to game the mechanics. Pretty shoddy.

What do you mean ? Also, why would you waste your time on this thread if you're not involved with the game.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 04:22:57 am by Mookzen »
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Gervassen

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Re: Might & Fealty
« Reply #41 on: May 29, 2014, 07:29:54 am »

Quote
What do you mean ?

I mean what I said. The game mechanics are not only simple, but also horribly broken to those that look closely. If you know how, you can travel 30% to 50% faster than everyone else. I always was running ahead of the pack. That's why. The game is poorly coded. Search your feelings, Mookzen, you know it to be true. The reason fast travel can be done is that the server doesn't make the proper checks to the database that it ought to do each movement tick. That would be computationally expensive, and the game was programmed to be light on resources. There's a lot less going on than you think.

Quote
Also, why would you waste your time on this thread if you're not involved with the game.

I'm already on this forum. I read these forums every day, and I have done since before MaF was a thing, and I will do long after it has passed. It costs me little to chime in on a game, when you come to my usual haunts and pretend that I don't exist. I've played the game, know it inside and out, and am qualified to pronounce on its generalised shittiness in an off-hand manner that was not going to be better spent, anyway.

Why do you give reviews of games and movies? Is this even a question that normally needs an answer on a web forum? Why are any of us here for that matter? Now you went and made me rub my chin all meditatively and shit.
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The way's paved with knaves that I've horribly slain.
See me coming, better run for them hills.
Listen up now...

             -- Babycakes

Mookzen

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Re: Might & Fealty
« Reply #42 on: May 29, 2014, 12:39:34 pm »

Fair enough, but do try to keep polluting the thread with excessive negativity on the low side, people can and probably should hear the criticism and by no means am I a fanatic fan of the game, however a more optimistic/constructive mood is just more pleasant for the vast majority. All games have their flaws, especially those in development with near no funding, game can be improved and besides whatever else that can be said about Tom, at least he's committed.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 12:41:34 pm by Mookzen »
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Mookzen

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Re: Might & Fealty
« Reply #43 on: May 29, 2014, 12:41:05 pm »

Bottom line is that I do not believe the game to be fundamentally broken. Good potential > playable but needs work > looks like will get work > looks like could meet potential.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2014, 03:45:29 pm by Mookzen »
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MoLAoS

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Re: Might & Fealty
« Reply #44 on: May 29, 2014, 08:23:59 pm »

Bottom line is that I do not believe the game to be fundamentally broken. Good potential > playable but needs work > looks like will get work > looks like could meet potential.

Considering that all games of this genre are fundamentally broken, that's a pretty ringing endorsement saying this one isn't.
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