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[Meph]

Played with those training whips you put in the new version. Bad new is, I can't use them to build the Den of Inequity. Still thanks for throwing em in.

Thats normal, since they are different items. Nothing Boltgun could do about it.

[Legorobo4]

First, want to say that I really enjoy the Succubi as a race and cn't wait to see the direction you go with this. 

Now on to the bugs:

1. Bloodworm is rotting in the fields because it is not being sorted into a stockpile - found this out because of the second bug
2. Bloodworm, if available, cost 0 points at embark, noticed they weren't being sorted when I deconstructed my wagon and they weren't put in the food stockpile. . .

on an unrelated note, building a Dark Cathedral of Debauchery from Fine Black Blocks made from peat and my Lady of Pain has fallen hard for my only incubus miner 

[Boltgun]

I will try to fix bloodworm asap, if it does not work I'll remove it from the game. It was supposed to provide an evil underground crop but that was not possible by DF standards.

[Boltgun]

It seems that fire imps melt at room temperature now. Handling fire immune creatures is harder than it looked.

[Meph]

Biomes dont affect the caverns... sadly.

Fire imps melting I did notice in dwarf mode too. The fire mages can create them as pets, but atm they just die/melt.

[Boltgun]

Biomes dont affect the caverns... sadly.

Fire imps melting I did notice in dwarf mode too. The fire mages can create them as pets, but atm they just die/melt.

It's probably my fault, I did tests on them while trying to make the succubi fire immune and at some point they melt like this.
Actually it seems that I did not change a thing in the fire imp definition. They may have died on sight before I got involved. I tried a few things, including removing horns and restoring tissues to vanilla settings but  the only fix I found so far is to lower their fixed temp.

The does not fix the issue because if they are immune to temperature change and not heat. I want truly heat immune creatures so they possibly walk into lava and also to for the hilarity to have clothes burning off them as  FIXED_TEMP protects the inventory with the exception of hauled items.

[Boltgun]

After feedback collected here and previous threads, I started to review the civ’s theme and goals.

The succubus civ already started to shift towards vanilla DF lore with reskinned buildings. Unfortunately, there is next to none HFS content and story to use. I could see on the other hand that older content have been requesting back tand using what is accepted as lore by the player should provide enough to paint a canvas for the succubi to move in.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The adamantine page contains a D for dwarf sections that sum what is accepted to be the story of HFS. And is a good insight for content.

I need sources on this, I’m too bad of an adventurer to visit current content and I did my best to dig captures of older one. I am taking any info on older content that has been removed (in PM to avoid posting spoilers).

Gameplay wise the civ would be:

• An sort of Underworld Slade Spire mode, like Warlocks could be considered necromancer tower mode.
• Taking advantage of what kills other civs: evil biomes, warpstone, etc.
• Taking advantage of HFS. Opening it should open opportunities but players must prepare for it first. It would be too easy to dig down and call it a day otherwise.

Borrowed DF “lore”:

• Older structures: Eerie glowing pits, peculiar chambers, upright swords and mysterious underground structure as well as adamantine spires. I need more data.
• Old random demons used for summoning, (ie. tentacle monsters)
• Deadly gas and spittle random demons may use will be introduced as upgrades.
• Possessions, succubi would be playing in this department to match the dream powers players expect them to have.
• Slabs with demon names on them.

Non DF lore added:

• The succubi as a civ creature. You need something that can die in expected situations and in regular strength.
• Traditional inferno creatures, hellhounds, nightmares, little imps.
• Twisting and corrupting living beings and materials.

For the succubi themselves:

• They would be a player version of the humanoid demons that poses as gods. Their descriptions will match.
• They should be friendly to the hfs, ideally if a posing demon reveals itself in their lands, they would be no fight.
• Underground clowns however would be hostile unless a succubus prove herself to be strong.
• They’ll be able to visit nightmares (it is expected too much) but will not drain life, no more kiss attacks.
• They use slade, lots of slade, for building, and glass too since they love heat so much.

So what do you think of this?

[Tyty210]

I really like the idea of having easy access to slade, particularly for building. I've always found it hard to build the large, dark castles described for succubi originally unless I luck out and land near obsidian on my embarks. Building a spire out of something that's potentially producible seems like it'd definitely go smoother.

It'll also be really interesting to have a race that actually wants to crack open the HFS.

I'm curious though. How much of the old "Capture prisoners, get souls, do rituals" gameplay is going to stay? Using souls to upgrade units and get effects was an interesting mechanic to me.

[Meph]

I like this a lot.

One suggestion from my side would be to replace the "heat the forges" which produces 1-3 fuel (?) with a free magma reaction. Give Succubi the ability to create a single-tile magma aquifer. Should be easy enough with dfhack. Then make most (half?) of their workshops require magma. Not just the fuel-needing metalworks, but pretty much all new modded workshops.

This will lead dungeons with channels of the red glowing stuff, a necessity to keep your workshops running. Since you can create magma-proof slade in a reaction, both combined (giving the player access to a black, magma-proof stone AND to unlimited magma) lead to demonic looking slade fortresses.

And start with a default "all civ-members/pets are fire-immune".

For the HFS: You hinted at a late-game tech that might make them friendly (or give them some use). How about a 50/50 chance? You might get allies, or you might get overrun by hostile demons. Just an idea.

[Boltgun]

Yes I realized how great it is to have large quantities of blocks when I opened the Battle of 8 armies save and found the hundreds of concrete block. I thought slag to be useless until I saw this, amazing. Perhaps one soul will conjure 10 slade boulders, or 30 slade blocks.

Prisoner corruption will stay, so are summoning and upgrades. Both fire and sin upgrades will be brought back into one temple. Some upgrades will be merged into secrets to make them more desirable in front of pyromancy. I'll leave more precise customization to the wasps who seem to have a good start with that.

Using souls to twist looted equipment will also be upgraded with soul imbued materials, turning steel, mithril and bronze bars into upgraded versions. But that will wait to see what metals will be in the new MDF.

There will be rituals but less of them. I'm sure I will keep those that causes invaders to go crazy or break camp and rush inside, in any case, like upgrades, reactions that causes a global effect will all rest inside one temple, with categories for better reading.

----

Heating the forges was a polyfill for cases you had no fuel, it was supposed to tire the succubus doing it so you were limited at how much bodies you could throw at it but it seems that the succubi are resisting the provided syndrome. It will be nerfed to 1 fuel per tired succubus.

Okay for making workshops requires magma however, and that will solve one issue I have with the planned workshops. Eerie glowing pits and peculiar chambers are chasms but you can place them on a ground and dig a level below. Those will require magma, and I'll give a relatively easy way to build a sort of magma well who will have the same tired effect then heating forges.

I still don't know how HFS will work out, I have a couple of leads that might involve grinding or building specific traps.

[Boltgun]

I adapted the main creature into 0.40 with gaits. The succubi are faster runners and climbers and are properly temperature immune. They'll also be easier to detect, smelling strange fragrances on approach. Poisoned saliva has been removed and kiss attacks restored into normal biting, kicking has been made a main attack however to better take advantage of hooves.

On the more technical side, body definitions are now made at caste level, this will allow centaurs, nagas, or whatever non humanoid creature to keep their species bodies upon corruption.

There is some customization left, like giving speeches for castes and adding more disaprovals but that'll be for a later update.

[Boltgun]

Wrote most of the entity today, I found again the bug that cause civs making dark fortresses and positions to crash the game.

I'll try to remove nobles and leader positions and see how it goes, we would not want our demons to live in dwarven fort don't we?

Anyway, among the changes, the succubi will have biomes assignments now, starting in badlands or a glacier and will rather settle in either deserts and tropics instead of regular forests.

Edit : Blah! The only work around the crash is to remove ALL AND ANY positions, the succubi will live in forts until it's fixed.

[IndigoFenix]

Love the new direction.

The succubi's image and tone, in my opinion, always seemed to make them feel like the odd race out, 'but let's have them anyway, because sexy' (even though their gameplay doesn't really depend on that image all too much).  Connecting them to the HFS would help greatly in the direction of making them fit better into DF's world.

If I might make a bold suggestion?  Since you're going in that direction anyway, perhaps change the race from 'succubi' to the broader 'demons', in which succubi and incubi could be one of many different types.  Perhaps castes and abilities could be themed around different sins (they are already kind of like that).  It would also be interesting if the corruption system utilized the new personality model, so different corruption methods would vary in their effectiveness depending on the target creature, although that would require the creation of new scripts.

EDIT: The Dark Fortress issue is tied to a particular, mostly unimportant tag... but I forgot which one it was.  I had similar issues with a race a while back but there is a fix that does not involve removing any important nobles.  I'll see if I can remember...
EDIT2: It is the [CHAT_WORTHY] token. If any position aside from the main law-giver is CHAT_WORTHY in a dark fortress civ, the game crashes immediately in worldgen.

[Weirdsound]

On the more technical side, body definitions are now made at caste level, this will allow centaurs, nagas, or whatever non humanoid creature to keep their species bodies upon corruption.

That would be a pain in the ass for equipment though, right?

[Boltgun]

On the more technical side, body definitions are now made at caste level, this will allow centaurs, nagas, or whatever non humanoid creature to keep their species bodies upon corruption.

That would be a pain in the ass for equipment though, right?

Equipment tends to be very supple. For example if you corrupt a centaur, he will wear 4 boots, two body armors (it have both horse's and human's upper body) and  mail leggings on its back legs.

Corrupting a naga might lead him to wear a a boot on her tail and I may have to try and prevent that.

As a matter of fact, it's hard to prevent a creature from wearing stuff.

We will discuss the reboot of the civ in the Masterwork reborn thread : http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=147509.0

This current thread remain good to discuss the current version and report bugs.