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[martinuzz]

Have you read the book(s) before you saw the movie?

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Have you read the book(s) before you saw the movie?

Yea, I've read 3 or 4 of them. I enjoyed all of them. The movie is just the first half of the first book. I mean it's certainly the best adaptation since done, and very skillfully so--maybe one or two nitpicks, but I thought it was very fulfilling and faithful to the Frank Herbert's writing.

EDIT: Also Hans Zimmer kills it with the score.

Do tell us. Did you admire space Jesus' giant worm?

that's right, I did! lol

[Il Palazzo]

What are we talking here on the Villeneuvescale - more Arrival or more Blade Runner? To be enjoyed or to be admired?
Don't be a tease, spill your heart. Spoilerize it if you must.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

I think its his best work, to be both enjoyed and admired! Visually, musically, and character-wise its a treat. To be honest I was pretty stunned by it and I'm still kind of processing the whole thing. Ill come back with a better anaylsis later lol

[Urist McScoopbeard]

Aight. I return with real words this time. Double-post.

So first of all. Dune was just a great experience, I saw it in IMAX with only a few other people there. It was a fun time. I ALSO stand by what I said in my last post. Dune is definitely Villeneuve's best movie, both in terms of enjoyability of story and experience of the art. The most important thing here is that, specifically, it's a really really good adaptation. It leaves plenty of bits and pieces out that are in the book, and as a result the story that is presented to us flows way better than any of the other movies or shows. Spoilers begin here:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That said, I have mixed feelings on what was cut. One of the blanket decisions that Villeneuve makes is to show-not-tell a lot of things that get a lot of time in the book. CHOAM isnt mentioned, neither is the Butlerian Jihad. Landsraad politics are brushed over, but they do come up. Hawat briefly demonstrates what a mentat is without getting all exposition-y (which worked really well, its just that when mentats are explained in the book it comes with a lot of context and additional worldbuilding--Herbert's exposition is weirdly better than any other author's and sometimes just as if not more interesting than the main plot).

Also some of the scenes are... mixed up or montaged into more compact ones compared to the book. The one that comes to mind is the famous Gurney Halleck training scene, it's very GOOD in the movie, but it sacrifices some of Thufir Hawat's characterization--which happens a lot in this one. I really can't complain, because it is to some degree necessary to make it work on screen, but still. A lot of the worldbuilding in the book happens in quiet little two or three people in a room talking scenes, and thats just not very interesting on screen. The worldbuilding happens in other, VERY EXCELLENT, ways, but there's still this weird pang of emptiness at certain scenes if you've read the book.

There's a lot of making space for Paul to get the screen time he needs. Which is fine, because Big Tim, who I was skeptical of actually kills it. He's a really good portrayal of Paul Atreides in any context. But it does kind of take away from the fun of the side characters a bit. Except Leto though, I should mention. Damn, Oscar Isaac really makes the character come alive.

Two final bits. The first is that I thought the art direction and costume design of the movie was fantastic, EXCEPT weirdly for the body armor of pretty much all the factions involved. It gets a lot of screen time and it's just too busy and kinda unpleasant to look at, and while the antagonists are MEANT to be unsettling, this is clearly just an issue of a weird-looking prop which took me out of it at multiple points.*

*all the spaceships are cool as FUCK though.

The second bit is pacing. It's a 2h30m movie and weirdly it feels a bit too fast sometimes. This is 100% down to the information-density of the book and the very real hard-to-adapt thing. On one hand it spends a lot of time setting up how competent and actually ascendant House Atreides (and that they know theyre walking into a trap) is as they take over management of Arrakis, but then due to time constraints its like the Harkonnen's attack almost immediately, and when they do the Atreides are caught with their pants down (which they arent really). It was somewhat disappointing to see armored Harkonnen troops and Saudukar fighting Atreides soldiers literally in their pajamas. That's not what was set up. It also de-emphasizes the Harkonnen's genius both generally in making this insane thing happen and using artillery. It's because characters like Dr. Yueh, Piter, and Feyd-Rautha don't get a lot of (or any) screentime. A lot of the nuance is lost. Lots of things like that. The Harkonnen-Corrino alliance-of-convenience feels way more out in the open. The Harkonnen-Atreides rivalry is somewhat deemphasized... it doesnt get a ton of exposition in the book, but it has some fun worldbuilding moments that arent there in the movie. These are nitpicks as it all holds together reasonably well, and the added presence and gravitas of Oscar Isaac as Leto helps soften some of these oversights/decisions/compromises.

A final final bit I just thought of. The big group fights are a little lacking. I felt like, before I saw the movie, this could one place where a lot more happens because it's so visual, but it didn't really. They're solid, but the fight choreography seems a bit phoned in or rushed. The armor design thing. The fact that the Atreides are not in armor at all. Yea. It was epic in the sense of scale and what was happening in the background of those scenes, it was just weird that the foreground moments felt a little glossed over.

So yea. 9/10 for me. Lots of nitpicks. But they feel necessary to make it work. Would it work BETTER as mini-series? I don't know, I am not sure it would. I can't wait for the inevitable sequel though... and I am dying inside knowing it'll be several years at least.

[Il Palazzo]

the inevitable sequel

Well, you say that...


Thanks for your thoughts. I'll probably see it in the next few days myself. Hopefully help contribute to it making enough money to justify the second part being made.

[Starver]

Having only recently re-read Dune[1], having forgotten that this new film was even on the cards, I must say that I'm intrigued and must find some time to view it[2]. And will not shy from reading its spoilers as obviously I know the baseline plot fairly well, and so long as it's as fairly-close to that as indicated I won't get spoiled in that respect.

The exact cut-off for the "first half of the first book" I can probably guess. Though some past multiparters have obviously shuffled some things both ways across such divides, for better slice-and-stitch purposes, that tends to be wider-scope epics with far more disparate strands[3] that can stand such resplicing. The initial Dune setup is generally far more sane. (The Red/Green/Blue Mars Trilogy would be interesting to map out.)


[1] And then (first-time-)listened to the unexpurgated audiobook, because it was made available to me.

[2] Still not seen anything on the big-screen, for the best part of two years now. My wishlist keeps getting added to (and removed from, I don't think I'll now see things like Black Widow anytime soon unless someone with a Disney+ subscription invites me to their house for a viewing...) but I've just not put in the time to go to a cinema yet... even with a Pot-Luck mentality over what I might end up seeing.

[3] Possible illustrations here - with clear spoilers for most of the targetted fictions if you open the full-res image version...

[McTraveller]

Dune is intriguing. I read the books a good three decades ago, so probably have forgotten most of it... I have semi-fond memories of the much-maligned 1980s film version.

[nenjin]

It's going to be hard to top the David Lynch version for me. Despite its flaws, I love it.

The Dune books are....good? The first one is undeniably good to me. The series get more esoteric, acid-trippy and less cohesive as the story goes on, and I think the later books are entirely supported by call backs to the original.

NGL, I feel trepidation towards the new movie. There's a lot of things I liked in the trailers, and many things I didn't like. Seems like there's political overtones all over the movie. The Lynch Dune was less about the politics and more about the revelation. New Dune seems way more about oppression than revelation from the trailers. Entirely possible that's just my read but what the trailers choose to emphasize is what I notice.

I'll see it at some point.

[TheSteppeWolf]

I actually was unspoiled on the Star Wars sequel trilogy, watched it over 2 days. Wasn't as good as the original trilogy, but, not as terrible, as people say. Prequel tier Imo.

Also I totally forgot about this forum.

[delphonso]

I love Dune, the book. Don't plan to see the film because, yeah, everything I've heard from previews is that it is more movie-fied. There's a fair bit of action in the first half of the book, but the film is apparently drumming that up more so it doesn't feel like a robbery to end the film halfway through an already pretty short book.

[Starver]

It's not a particularly thin book, though. It's not near me right now, but it's approximately the size of the first Gormenghast and the Uplift Trilogy(-in-one-cover), those two as (trade-?)paperbacks while Dune as a similarly-profiled jacketless hardback[1], as I know exactly where it is and what its near neighbours currently are.

(No, I don't have a table with three short legs. )

Don't get me wrong, I have longer tomes, but it's no slouch on the pagecount front. And without particularly large font to cut into the equivalent wordcount, IIRC.


[1] Very little extra thickness, by proportion, by the end-boards.

[delphonso]

Don't forget Dune comes with a dictionary of terms and the ecology of Arrakis at the end.

Two friends have seen it and both made plans to see it again (one of these friends is a bigger Dune fan than me) so...maybe I'm wrong.

[Urist McScoopbeard]

The OG book is ~475 pages in most prints, though I am unsure of the word count. Uh, I guess you could call the movie movie-ified but... I mean, yea. It is a movie. There's not undue action, although the action is a little stupider than in the book so. that.

[1freeman]

Saw Dune on Saturday, and I'm still trying do decide how I feel about it.

For context, I have read all of the Frank Herbert Dune books, and watched both the David Lynch movie and the Mini-series.

Visually it was beautiful, I loved the costumes and the ship designs. All of the actors performed well.

Spoiler: Baron Vladimir Harkonnen (click to show/hide)

I feel like this version of the Baron Vladimir Harkonnen was kind of disappointing. I did not get the sense of intelligence and scheming and trickery that the book and the other adaptation show. Also, the whole point of the tooth was that the Baron would never let Yueh get close enough to attack him, but in this version, the Baron floats right up to him and kill him personally. Not sure why they had him get injured and then spend time with him in the oil bath, it felt like a bit of a waste of time.

Spoiler: Mapes (click to show/hide)

I am unsure why they even bothered having the Shadout Mapes (Shadout is a title, not a name) in the movie considering how underutilized she was. In the books she warns that there is a traitor among them, and she works to arrange transport off world (not that it works, but it's the thought that counts). in this movie, she just gives Jessica a knife (that never comes up again), gives exposition about the great maker (which isn't used for the rest of the movie). then she dies in the same way as in the book. It would have been very easy to cut her out completely from this movie and devote that time to something else. (I like Mapes, I enjoy her character in the other adaptations and in the book, but she feels underutilized in this movie.)

Spoiler: Lasguns (click to show/hide)

The reckless use of lasguns kicked me out of the movie for a while, When Duncan was flying around in a stolen thopter that was clearly shown to have an active shield and that frigate just started lasing away with wild abandon. I was kind of hoping for a lasgun/shield explosion but alas, 'twas not meant to be

Spoiler: Duncan Idaho (click to show/hide)

 Jason Mamoa did a great job as Duncan Idaho, and we got to see him actually kick ass and take names (something that none of the other adaptations bothered to show).Duncan's Final scene was well done (though I'm not sure if he actually got the 19 Sardaukar that the book says he killed).

Spoiler: Paul's (lack of) agency (click to show/hide)

I was disappointed that they did not let Paul figure out how to navigate the dessert himself using his mentat training (which isn't mentioned in this movie). They just had a bunch of obi-wan moments(not sure if the voice was Gaius Moem or Alia [woman with bloody knife = saint alia of the knife?]) telling him what to do. It was also weird to me that there was a PSA near the beginning where he is shown exactly how to cross the dessert (walk without rhythm) when in the book that was a fremen secret that he figures out due to his mentat training. The same PSA also talks about the fremen attempts to terraform Arrakis which is supposed to be a secret.

Spoiler: Liet Kynes (click to show/hide)

 I am unsure why they felt the need to make Liet a woman in this movie, but It seems very unlikely to me that such a patriarchal society (men literally get to keep the wives of people they kill in duels as either wives of their own or servants for a year) would accept a woman (even the daughter of their prophet) as their supreme leader, able to point and have entire communities go without question or hesitation. Also, Liet's death was kind of disappointing, I was hoping for the walk through the desert and the final conversation with Pardot Kynes ("no more terrible disaster could befall your people than to fall into the hands of a hero.")

Spoiler: Little things I liked (click to show/hide)

I liked that they showed that Paul's visions are of possible futures, and not necessarily the 'true' future. I also enjoyed the liquefaction of the sand as the sandworms are approaching. Not sure what it says about me that one of my favorite new scenes was when the fremen are sharing water/spit in the little percolator thing and just hanging out drinking and talking about the things that are going on.

I get the feeling that I would have enjoyed this movie a great deal more if I knew nothing about the books or previous adaptations.